BAD Law Enforcement: Campus Police LEO Shoots and Kills Naked Freshman - Page 4

BAD Law Enforcement: Campus Police LEO Shoots and Kills Naked Freshman

This is a discussion on BAD Law Enforcement: Campus Police LEO Shoots and Kills Naked Freshman within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by detective I saw the same situation in New York City...Cuffed and searched... Was it the same? Was this perp naked? Because earlier ...

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Thread: BAD Law Enforcement: Campus Police LEO Shoots and Kills Naked Freshman

  1. #46
    Ex Member Array ScottM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by detective View Post
    I saw the same situation in New York City...Cuffed and searched...
    Was it the same? Was this perp naked? Because earlier you said
    Naked 135 pounders are obviously not carrying other weapons
    So why search this guy, if he obviously was unarmed?


  2. #47
    Senior Member Array Phillep Harding's Avatar
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    I'm happy to bash cops when I think they are out of line, especially considering how much damage they can do if/when protected by the system. Rent-a-cops? I give them an even closer look to see what sort of person they are.

    But, this sounds like a good shoot to me (pending further info). No matter what size he and the cop were.

  3. #48
    Member Array JayTee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 40Bob View Post
    You have no idea how dangerous it is. The police are not hired to be thugs, nor are they hired or paid to be assaulted. There is a well defined use of force model in all agencies. Not all officers and not all agencies created equal. I just happen to work for some that valued training and were willing to pay for it. The question is; Are you willing to do what you want someone else to do for you? Have you ever faced a madman intent on eating your entrails? If not I suggest you withhold judgement until the facts are known.
    Because my "judgement" doesn't fall in line with yours I should withhold it but everyone else who agrees is okay huh? Nice.

    I carry a gun because I take personal responsibility for myself, am prepared and trained to use it if I absolutely have to, and also know that police aren't hired to protect me personally so I'm not sure what you mean by wanting other people to do this for me.

    We know the student was naked and irrational, there is your first clue.
    We also know he weighed 135lbs and was unarmed, something you conveniently left out.

    Anyway, I'm done with this thread because its obvious that opposing viewpoints aren't welcomed or tolerated too well. Have a good day, and God bless.

  4. #49
    Ex Member Array ScottM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayTee View Post
    We also know he weighed 135lbs and was unarmed, something you conveniently left out.
    As has also been pointed out over and over, 'unarmed' does not equal 'incapable of deadly force'.

  5. #50
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    The University Police Department is a police department, not a bunch of rent-a-cops or police rejects. I don't know anything about their specifics, but I don't think you can automatically assume that it's a training or personnel issue just because it was a university officer as opposed to a city/county/state officer.

    From their website: All sworn officers have completed the Minimum Standards of Peace Officers for the State of Alabama (A.P.O.S.T. certification). University Police have full arrest powers granted by the State of Alabama (Title 16-22-1 and 16-22-2).

    Quote Originally Posted by JayTee View Post
    Because my "judgement" doesn't fall in line with yours I should withhold it but everyone else who agrees is okay huh? Nice.

    I carry a gun because I take personal responsibility for myself, am prepared and trained to use it if I absolutely have to, and also know that police aren't hired to protect me personally so I'm not sure what you mean by wanting other people to do this for me.


    We also know he weighed 135lbs and was unarmed, something you conveniently left out.

    Anyway, I'm done with this thread because its obvious that opposing viewpoints aren't welcomed or tolerated too well. Have a good day, and God bless.
    Nobody is telling you that your viewpoints aren't welcomed or tolerated. If you want to have an opinion that runs counter to anyones, or everyones, fine by me. Having that opinion questioned is nothing more than us giving you some "food for thought", to use your words.

  6. #51
    Member Array 40strapped's Avatar
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    I'm not sure why everyone is putting so much into the size of this kid. I don't believe a police officer should have to size up a suspect and determine if they can take them on hand to hand. Anyone who has ever done any amount of training knows that crazy things happen fast in a fight. I'm glad we are not discussing the death of an officer that should of shot and didn't.

    I'm 6'4 230lbs and I've been training and working out my entire life. I'm about 90% sure I can take on most guys similar in size to this kid, does that mean I have to risk it?

    With the limited information in this article... And assuming it is all true... I believe the shooting was justified. Could things have been handled better....possibly, but still a justified shooting IMO.

  7. #52
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    I am 143 lbs (running weight) and have been practicing H2H for over twenty years. I can and have taken down guys 200 lbs plus who are in shape. I have no doubt about my abilities to do harm to someone much larger than me.

    I am normaly on the side against the LEO or for that matter other shoots where everyone agrees it was a good shoot. I am on the officers side with this one so far. The kid for whatever reason could prove to be a formibable threat to the officer. Even if the officer could get an upper hand there is still the danger of his weapon being taken.

    Could the LEO have done something different? Of course. In every altercation something could have been done different. I am not going to question the LEO on this one until more info comes out.
    TX expat and dukalmighty like this.
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  8. #53
    Ex Member Array ScottM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TX expat View Post
    The University Police Department is a police department, not a bunch of rent-a-cops or police rejects. I don't know anything about their specifics, but I don't think you can automatically assume that it's a training or personnel issue just because it was a university officer as opposed to a city/county/state officer.

    From their website: All sworn officers have completed the Minimum Standards of Peace Officers for the State of Alabama (A.P.O.S.T. certification). University Police have full arrest powers granted by the State of Alabama (Title 16-22-1 and 16-22-2).
    Often a University PD force can outnumber the local town force, depending on the size of the school and town.

    BTW, from a friend in the area. There was a big BayFest music festival going on this weekend and there is no telling what the student may have had access to.

  9. #54
    Ex Member Array Ickythump's Avatar
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    It seems like an impossible situation that we are putting our cops in.

  10. #55
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    Sounds like he fired his weapon to stop the threat.
    --Jason--

  11. #56
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    I've seen guys that were trained wrestlers wrap up bigger guys,doesn't matter if he's 5 sumpin #135,he over powers the LEO/chokes him out and he can get his firearm.
    I was trained in every LEO encounter there is at least one gun "YOURS",a rational person is not going to advance on a drawn gun,the fact that he was naked and refusing to comply with the recent stories of people under the influence of bath salts attacking people and eating them it sounds like he was in fear of great bodily harm
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  12. #57
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    Maybe he was carrying a really big club ... you know what I mean.
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  13. #58
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayTee View Post
    Because my "judgement" doesn't fall in line with yours I should withhold it but everyone else who agrees is okay huh? Nice.

    I carry a gun because I take personal responsibility for myself, am prepared and trained to use it if I absolutely have to, and also know that police aren't hired to protect me personally so I'm not sure what you mean by wanting other people to do this for me.


    We also know he weighed 135lbs and was unarmed, something you conveniently left out.

    Anyway, I'm done with this thread because its obvious that opposing viewpoints aren't welcomed or tolerated too well. Have a good day, and God bless.


    The courts will decide if it was the right one based on facts.
    From my first post on this thread. I am not judging, not my place.

    I did not include his size, because for me it is irrelevant. You miss the point, cops are not paid to be assaulted. In that situation I personally would not have fired. I was a wrestler too, and a martial artist and a street cop, so what, clown wants to dance he better bring his lunch.
    My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.

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  14. #59
    Member Array Cleandean's Avatar
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    Never under estimate the power............of pepper spray ( bear formula strength). after a couple of sprays [eyes and face]and one more to the genitals. THE NAKED GUY WOULD HAVE BEEN BEGGING TO BE SHOT WITH A .40 CAL.HOLLOWPOINT.
    detective likes this.
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  15. #60
    Ex Member Array detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottM View Post
    From the article:
    The article also states he was 'muscular'.

    What do we know about the cop? In a world where we hire petite women (and men) to do LE work, the student may have out weighed the officer.

    I'm about 5'11 and 220, but I had a guy on drugs once lift me completely off the ground and slam me into a wall.An unarmed man acting erratically can hardly be called a 'non-lethal threat'.
    Illogical, police have physical training, they carry a numerous assortment of weapons to subdue without killing. And they are met by a muscular person and turn into one of the ranks of the disabled? And quake even at 5' 7", 135 pounders.

    "MY GOD HE WAS MUSCULAR, OF COURSE I KILLED HIM!"

    The 18yr old is simply not a lethal threat to a police officer. I doubt under Self-Defense Law he would be considered a lethal threat to many civilians. If this young man is, unarmed, a lethal threat to a trained Officer who has means for getting fast-back-up, the weapons I've mentioned and his own headquarters to move into just paces away, what would you consider a non-lethal threat: a corpse?

    PULEEZE, your attitude towards Police capabilities make then sound naked old men who crumble in a gust of wind or are easily run over and crushed by wheel-chairs.

    Here's how this works: the DA looks at the tapes and talks to the Officer. Unless the former is shown that he tried non-lethal means first and failed, and before he could move inside Headquarters was being leaped on from behind and being strangled to death by the kid and just managed to get his gun and fire before he went out - this will go down as a criminal, felony offense and it well should. Unless the DA is incompetent or strongly biased, that is. In which case it will go upstairs from the DA - no one will believe him.

    Police are not always right because they are police. And when a death results when they are wrong it's not OK to assume whatever was faced was a lethal threat and give them an automatic pass. Go tell the parents of their giant of a deadly 18yr old dead son this. You can sue right after you heal up, shouldn't take more than 2 or 3 months.

    Luckily there are tapes.

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