Govt Report: Violent Crime Rises Sharply

This is a discussion on Govt Report: Violent Crime Rises Sharply within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I reject the theory that poverty causes crime. The poorest person in America today lives like a king compared to 99% of the people that ...

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Thread: Govt Report: Violent Crime Rises Sharply

  1. #46
    Senior Member Array Caertaker's Avatar
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    I reject the theory that poverty causes crime. The poorest person in America today lives like a king compared to 99% of the people that have ever lived. Television, indoor plumming, cell phones are just a few of the modern conveniences that most people throughout history have not benefited from. Heck my grandfather once got an orange for Christmas and he never resorted to a life of crime. A lack of morals causes crime and the only person responsible is the criminal. Criminals will use any excuse available to avoid person responsiblity for their own actions. How many times have you heard:
    - She had it coming. did you see what she was wearing
    - I had no choice. He dissed me
    - Shouldn't have worn that jacket or shoes or phone in this neighborhood
    Crooks always have an excuse and it never is the truth.
    "I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power, than by violent and sudden usurpations” – James Madison 1788

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  3. #47
    Senior Member Array Phillep Harding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pythius View Post
    poverty and a sense of hopelessness, causes crime.
    poverty and a clear sense of inequality & injustice, causes crime.
    I was raised in one of the scofflaw cultures. People with your attitude in positions of power cause increases in crime by diverting attention away from actual crime causes.

    1) Poverty and a sense of hopelessness increases victimization as desperate people are easier victims.

    2) Your second point is only "sort of" true, provided you interpret "poverty" as meaning "no money for drugs or partying" and "a clear sense of inequality & injustice" as "It's not right that someone else has money and I don't".

    Oh, and, if "a clear sense of inequality and injustice" is a motivator, why are the impoverished most likely to be victims of theft and muggings?

  4. #48
    Senior Member Array Phillep Harding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phreddy View Post
    While I want to agree with the report, the fact that it came from the Justice Department has me wondering what political issue it is pushing. I will not trust anything coming out of the Justice Department until it gets cleaned up. There have been too many blatant poltical actions lately for the Justice department to be believed.
    I had not noticed the source.

    Hmmm.

    If DOJ issued a report saying "dog doo stinks", I'd be likely to sniff the nearest pile and double check.
    phreddy likes this.

  5. #49
    Ex Member Array dbglock's Avatar
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    Anybody who says anything other than, "A lot of things cause crime" is oversimplifying the issue. All I know for a fact is that prisons are populated with people from the ghetto, not the Hamptons. Maybe because they can afford better lawyers .. ?? .. Or because rich people have better morals?? OK, I could barely type that I was laughing so hard!

  6. #50
    Senior Member Array Phillep Harding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbglock View Post
    Anybody who says anything other than, "A lot of things cause crime" is oversimplifying the issue. All I know for a fact is that prisons are populated with people from the ghetto, not the Hamptons. Maybe because they can afford better lawyers .. ?? .. Or because rich people have better morals?? OK, I could barely type that I was laughing so hard!
    Criminals generally live in poverty because they waste money on drugs and other useless stuff.

  7. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pythius View Post
    a rise in poverty & unemployment can lead to more crime.
    Captain Obvious to the rescue!!!! : )
    OldVet and Pythius like this.

  8. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillep Harding View Post
    Criminals generally live in poverty because they waste money on drugs and other useless stuff.
    These low class punks, living in ghettos commit all of the crimes.

    Just look at Bernie Madoff, Peter Lombardi, Dennis Herula, James Paul Lewis, Joseph Shereshevsky, Steven Byers, Tom Petters, Joseph S. Forte etc... lived in poverty because they wasted their money on drugs and useless stuff.

    They were just some two bit punks robbing people for chump change.
    CaveJohnson, dbglock and Pythius like this.
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  9. #53
    Ex Member Array CaveJohnson's Avatar
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    All they have to do is decriminalize all drugs, and bam, crime drops. It won't happen though, and if all drugs were legalized then there would be no demand for it illegally.

  10. #54
    Member Array steffen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaveJohnson View Post
    All they have to do is decriminalize all drugs, and bam, crime drops. It won't happen though, and if all drugs were legalized then there would be no demand for it illegally.
    Check out Colorado's Amendment 64. A step in the right direction if you ask me.

    Edit -- Here's a link for you
    Amendment 64
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  11. #55
    VIP Member Array mprp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbglock View Post
    Anybody who says anything other than, "A lot of things cause crime" is oversimplifying the issue. All I know for a fact is that prisons are populated with people from the ghetto, not the Hamptons. Maybe because they can afford better lawyers .. ?? .. Or because rich people have better morals?? OK, I could barely type that I was laughing so hard!
    It's not any more confusing than the attitude of the person causes crime. Poverty doesn't cause crime. One could say that poverty caused one to do something about it and better their life with an education too, etc. on and on. The criminal mind doesn't disappear by giving them money. There are plenty of upper and middle class in prison too. People make their own choices in life and most of the time the path to crime is the path of least resistance, or "work" some of us like to call it. It's not far off of the "Govt. please help me!" mentality. People in mass quantities in this country just love that path of least resistance and as long as someone else earns it, then who cares because it's being given to ME. "I don't care about morals or pitching in, just gimme gimme gimme."

    If today, I had everything taken away from me in a house fire, lost my job and had nowhere to go, it may not be a walk in the park for a bit but I guarantee I would not resort to crime and my family would get by. I know I know, it's much easier to pop someone in the head, take their car and raid their fridge, but hey, that's just not my choice of path.

    I remember being a kid, my mom taking us down to a place that takes gift donations and hands them out to needy families during the Holidays so we could have something for Christmas. She didn't steal anything from anyone and my dad never robbed a 7-11. My family went through tough times when we were kids and I won't forget it for sure. But the importance of community and charity really stuck in my mind along with good parenting throughout. Mom and Dad ended up climbing the ladder a bit and worked better jobs as time went on and we lived happily ever after blah blah blah. But my point is, poor path choice, parenting and attitude is what actually causes crime, not the lack of money. Some are just more prone to chose that path given a bad situation in life.

    Giving the excuse of poverty being a cause, then I guess the only to make society right would be to make crime legal as long as you fall under a certain tax bracket then right? I mean, it would only be fair.
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  12. #56
    Senior Member Array Phillep Harding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgrass101 View Post
    These low class punks, living in ghettos commit all of the crimes.

    Just look at Bernie Madoff, Peter Lombardi, Dennis Herula, James Paul Lewis, Joseph Shereshevsky, Steven Byers, Tom Petters, Joseph S. Forte etc... lived in poverty because they wasted their money on drugs and useless stuff.

    They were just some two bit punks robbing people for chump change.
    "Generally" is not "all".

    We were addressing why poor people commit crimes. The poor who do so are poor because they waste money.

    Your examples are not people who live in poverty and commit crimes.

    But, you show some good examples of crime creating poverty.

  13. #57
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Phillep Harding
    Criminals generally live in poverty because they waste money on drugs and other useless stuff.
    Actually this statement could apply to many honest citizens who live in poverty as well. I live much better on my limited retirement income than the majority of my fellow retirees that I worked with. While some of them did do drugs most just borrowed to much money over the years and lived above their income.

    Michael

  14. #58
    Senior Member Array dV8r's Avatar
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    Why beat around the bush?
    Criminals disobey the law because they lack ethics, morals, and/or conscience.
    Violence is caused by evil.
    We all know why and where those traits come from and why they are more prevalent every year.
    Most everyone knows how to get them back.
    The real problem is... not enough people want to get them back or are too scared or too "PC" to admit the truth.
    Those who deny this are only ignoring the obvious and almost everyone knows it.

    Anyone want to guess how long before this gets deleted? But I don't care it needs to be said.
    LEARN something today so you can TEACH something tomorrow.
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  15. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillep Harding View Post
    "Generally" is not "all".

    We were addressing why poor people commit crimes. The poor who do so are poor because they waste money.
    So if you are poor it's because you waste money? So if you work 40 hours a week making $7.25 an hour (40 hours equals $290 before taxes) which is $15080 a year. Let's say the SSI and Medicare take out 8% that leaves you with $13,874 a year. Let's say that you live in a 1 bedroom apartment that is $500 a month which is $6,000 a year so that leaves you with $7,874

    Wow you're right they are wasting all of the $7,874 on useless things like food, gas, power......
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

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  16. #60
    Ex Member Array CaveJohnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steffen View Post
    Check out Colorado's Amendment 64. A step in the right direction if you ask me.

    Edit -- Here's a link for you
    Amendment 64
    Very nice, I'm able to vote for it medically in my state this year and it's already been de-criminalized. Much to the chagrin of cops who cried doom, nothing bad has happened. People get tickets that aren't backed up by anything so they go unpaid, making it de facto legal.

    Quote Originally Posted by dV8r View Post
    Why beat around the bush?
    Criminals disobey the law because they lack ethics, morals, and/or conscience.
    Violence is caused by evil.
    We all know why and where those traits come from and why they are more prevalent every year.
    Most everyone knows how to get them back.
    The real problem is... not enough people want to get them back or are too scared or too "PC" to admit the truth.
    Those who deny this are only ignoring the obvious and almost everyone knows it.

    Anyone want to guess how long before this gets deleted? But I don't care it needs to be said.
    I could hazard a guess, but I won't. What do you mean? Who's evil?

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