Bad-Cop shoots at truck tires, kills illegals

This is a discussion on Bad-Cop shoots at truck tires, kills illegals within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by CanuckQue Yeah, it is bad. A person should be hitting what they're aiming at, or not shooting. This wasn't a self-defense situation. ...

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Thread: Bad-Cop shoots at truck tires, kills illegals

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanuckQue View Post
    Yeah, it is bad. A person should be hitting what they're aiming at, or not shooting. This wasn't a self-defense situation.
    . You weren't there....neither was I.


    Quote Originally Posted by CanuckQue View Post
    I'm tired of speeding drivers killing Americans. That said, I don't secretly hope you get shot the next time you speed.
    they weren't speeding...they were fleeing the police. I stop when pulled over. Oh, and I don't drive along drug and illegal immigrant routes...at night...fleeing the police.



    Quote Originally Posted by CanuckQue View Post
    It is callous. Justifying suffering of one group of people because of what other people have done is probably one of the greatest ills on the planet.
    well, that may be...but I've lost my best friend (and Marine) to an illegal who ran him down on his motorcycle after surviving a tour in Iraq in 2003. So my sympathy for illegals who are in this country and committing additional crimes is extremely low...

    How about they work for change in their country instead?
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  3. #32
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Somebody tell me how this is an illegal immigrant issue? It is a police shooting. Right or wrong protocols were enforced. The guy doing the shooting did not not know if kids, monkeys's or aliens were in the truck. The point and discusiion is:Should they have shot and why or why not. IMO shooting fro a helo when there appeared to be no apparent threat was reckless.
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  4. #33
    Member Array odysseus's Avatar
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    The first suspician was that the truck was carrying drugs, and they wouldn't stop. It will undoubtedly be discussed, but the policy has been for helo "snipers" to support personnel on the ground and to shoot to disable the vehicle. Like it or not, it is apparently DPS policy to shoot to disable. There were something like 9 people in the truck that was not known to the officers.

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaveJohnson View Post
    How could unaffiliated groups of natives control a border that didn't exist, nor would they likely have acknowledged if it did?
    Inability or unwillingness...... Same result.

  6. #35
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    I've been all over the world...sat across from some of the most despicable people, shared meals with the most generous of people...I'm far from xenophobic.

    Illegals who commit further crimes against citizens are hardly held accountable...they are eventually deported--and live to kill again... Examples of Serious Crimes of Illegal Aliens
    Last edited by HotGuns; October 28th, 2012 at 10:33 AM. Reason: deleted quote that was deleted
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  7. #36
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    I'm another that thinks this shooting has nothing to do with immigration. The only one responsible for the deaths is the operator of the truck. If Texas DPS allows their officers to disable motor vehicles with gunfire then the Officer was correct. If the Officer took it upon himself to fire on the truck... he has a lot of splainin to do. Again I wasnt there. I dont know how much of a threat the speeding truck posed to others. I dont know if there was other factors involved. I'd have to side that the Officer acted responsibly based on the information he had at the time, and according to department protocol.

    Some professor of criminal justice's comments are worth about the cost of 2 cent piece of candy. Unless he was a street cop for more than 10 years... he's not qualified to comment in my book.
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  8. #37
    Ex Member Array CaveJohnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    I've been all over the world...sat across from some of the most despicable people, shared meals with the most generous of people...I'm far from xenophobic.

    Illegals who commit further crimes against citizens are hardly held accountable...they are eventually deported--and live to kill again... Examples of Serious Crimes of Illegal Aliens
    Once again, US citizens commit all of those crimes and many more. I don't see the point.

    As for the officer, I still think a policy of shooting our tires is a terrible idea unless it's necessary because the person fleeing is a violent murderer. Otherwise how many innocents are you going to hit like the terrible NYPD shots that hit tons of people just standing there.
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  9. #38
    Member Array Poseidon's Avatar
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    Cop was just doing his duty to protect the nation from foreign invaders.

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaveJohnson View Post
    Once again, US citizens commit all of those crimes and many more. I don't see the point.

    As for the officer, I still think a policy of shooting our tires is a terrible idea unless it's necessary because the person fleeing is a violent murderer. Otherwise how many innocents are you going to hit like the terrible NYPD shots that hit tons of people just standing there.
    They are not innocents. They are criminals entering the US illegally. What happens, happens when you break the law. Don't expect me to cry over people who got themselves killed while breaking the law. Whether they be American citizens or illegal aliens. You reap what you sow, and this time the reaping of ones efforts was literally death. Actions have consequences, and stop thinking they don't. That thinking is what is leading this nation downhill.

    The shooting was justified due to the circumstances. Had there been no laws being broken, the drivers would not have been fleeing the police. They caused the the cargo they were carrying to be shot. If you want to be angry, be angry with them.

    Don't get upset with the LE personnel doing their job to protect us from threats crossing the border. We need to be more aggressive defending our borders against illegal crossings.

    I can't believe someone accused me having xenophobia. That's BS. I hate all criminals regardless of their race/age/religion. People at some point choose the path they walk. I respect those that are honest and hard working. I have no respect for those that do not. That's the way my family is, and has been, for generations.
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  11. #40
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFury View Post
    The shooting was justified due to the circumstances. Had there been no laws being broken, the drivers would not have been fleeing the police. They caused the the cargo they were carrying to be shot. If you want to be angry, be angry with them.
    Yup.

    It's important in this instance to separate concerns over the cargo (found later) from the actions performed based on what was known at the time. Seen crossing the border zone; fleeing LE after lawfully commanded to stop and submit to verification; a history of dangerous pursuits in the area, threatening the lives of those pursued; and an authorized, lawful and (IMO) reasonable method chosen to stop the vehicle, based on the remote/difficult location of the road, speeds of the vehicle, and likely cargo ($millions in drugs).

    Don't want to be forcibly stopped crossing into countries unannounced? Then don't do that, particularly not along known drug/invader routes.
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  12. #41
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    Not one of the posts above addressed the core issue: What is TX law, not DPS policy, on
    the use of deadly force to prevent a suspect (and that is all they were when shot at) from
    fleeing?

    Go through the handbook/penal code and try to pick out (you can't) the justification that applies
    in this situation. *

    And if you think there is a separate set of laws for the LEOs, then bring us the citation and the text;
    not a DPS policy statement.

    *Earlier MCP commented on the Coast Guard firing on suspected drug boats. Different situation,
    different jurisdiction; happening on the high seas where a totally different set of US and international
    law apply.
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  13. #42
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    WOW.

    there probably isnt a border in the world where you could disregard the police,flee and expect NOT to get shot....except for here in the good ole U.S. of A.

    Border crime is becoming rampant and American citizens living close to the border of Mexico have become unwilling participants in much of the violence that routinely happens in Mexico,which for the most part, remains ignored by the Federal Government that could stop it entirely if we had the leadership to do so.

    Having talked to a multitude of citizens that live within a couple of hundred miles of the border, pretty much ALL of them are tired of it and want MORE LEO action to take place, not less. With the vast numbers of illegals in this country, and the very limited numbers of LEO's, I am suprised that this sort of thing doesnt occur more often.

    Here is a revelation for those that live here illegally and choose to abide by no law. If you dont want to get SHOT, then dont run from the police.
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  14. #43
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    I must be totally missing something here. The police shot at a vehicle that did not stop when ordered. Is that a litmus test now for officers to fire at a vehicle? Put the dang Monday morning quarterbacking aside for a moment. The officers only SUSPECTED the vehicle was carrying drugs. Seems like the only basis for that was a tarp on the bed of the truck. Boy, if that does not say shoot me I am a drug runner nothing does.

    With only the information from the article folks seem to think it is Okee Dokee for LEO's to shoot at a vehicle for not stopping with only a suspicion of further illegal activity.

    Other possibilities:
    1. Teenagers out screwing around (still wrong not to stop but OK to shoot? I think not)
    2. Diabetic shock
    3. Elderly driver unaware of his/her surroundings
    4. Estranged hubby/BF that took GF/wife from house (officers unaware)
    5. 13 year old kid takes dads car for a spin (still wrong but a reason to shoot? I think not)

    But if you all think it is OK for an officer to shoot at a vehcil for the sole reason of fleeing without anyone being in danger then that is your opinion.

    BTW: Th officers were WRONG in their assumption. The vehicle was not carrying drugs or at least not for drug running. If they were wrong about that, they could have been wrong in a million other ways.
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  15. #44
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    I have no sympathy for the illegals. And yes, they are illegal aliens, not immigrants, not undocumented workers. If they want to come here illegally to work, then we can put them to work in Soviet style gulags as far as I am concerned. We need to be seriously enforcing our borders, with prejudice when necessary. At the same time, legal visitors should and need to be welcomed. Come in through the front door with a passport and enjoy your stay. Cross the border bringing contraband and get shot or worse. I also strictly oppose giving citizenship to those that come over hear and bear their crotch fruit and I don't care about this "no fault of their own" crap. They are just as illegal as their parents. Especially with all this talk about the costs of medicare, social security, the deficit, etc the last thing I want to do is be paying for a bunch of illegal aliens to get better care than I can afford and other associated freebies. The only reason I think that the govt doesn't do anything about it is that they are all part of the "new world order" plan.

    Now with regards to the method used of shooting from a helicopter, I am of mixed feelings. Generally speaking, I am against high speed chases, shooting at vehicles, and other high risk pursuit tactics because of the risk involved to true innocents. To me, the problem is one of proper process and procedure and this applies regardless of whether or not they were dealing with illegals or citizens.

  16. #45
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    Th officers were WRONG in their assumption.
    You are basing your assumption on a news article?

    Really?

    I know better. News articles are notorious for either leaving out details of a story that they know or for writing a story in which they dont know all of the facts.
    I think its safe to say that the officers knew more about the situation than the news reporters did.

    One thing is for certain. If the officers acted wrongly, then they wont be doing it for long.

    Eight people who were in the truck were arrested.
    So 10 people were in the truck. What were they doing under a tarp? They sure werent sight seeing now were they?

    The Guatemalans started their journey 19 days ago near Guatemala City, with plans to stay with friends and relatives in New York, New Jersey and Houston, she said.
    They were covered with a tarp, but as the car sped away from the game warden and the helicopter, the men "were having lots of trouble holding on to that tarp, Caceres said.
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