Bad-Cop shoots at truck tires, kills illegals - Page 4

Bad-Cop shoots at truck tires, kills illegals

This is a discussion on Bad-Cop shoots at truck tires, kills illegals within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; G'morning Ole vet: Gi coffee out in the patio my friend. Just being a bit picky this morning since I lost a discussion (?) with ...

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Thread: Bad-Cop shoots at truck tires, kills illegals

  1. #46
    Member Array Tayopo's Avatar
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    G'morning Ole vet: Gi coffee out in the patio my friend. Just being a bit picky this morning since I lost a discussion (?) with my wfe, as usual.

    But look what Custer had to fight with, a single shot 50 70 Springfield rifle and defective munitions. The extractor often simply pulled through the soft base leaving the case firmly wedged in the chamber. Many were found with evidence of the shooter trying to remove the stuck case with their knives.

    And most importantly, Custer didn't know how to use the new rifles. Properly deployed and used they could have started working on the Indians far outside of the range of the arms the Indians had, say 5 - 700 meters away.

    He simply threw away the tremendous advantage that he had over the Indians and allowed the engagement to take place at close quarters.

    Don Jose de La Mancha


  2. #47
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poseidon View Post
    Cop was just doing his duty to protect the nation from foreign invaders.
    I don't deny that. What I question was whether or not he was operating within the law and or policy of his agency.

    Michael

  3. #48
    Member Array Tayopo's Avatar
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    Good morning Cave, coffee? Please define innocent? Illegals are 'felons' period. Perhaps non violent, but how is the Border Patrol officer to know?

    Don Jose de La Mancha

  4. #49
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    I don't deny that. What I question was whether or not he was operating within the law and or policy of his agency
    I'd be willing to bet that they just didn't randomly fire. They more than likely were authorized to do so from a higher up.
    Shooters from helicopters just dont start shooting without having some sort of dialogue with troops on the ground.
    SFury, Tayopo and rocky like this.
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  5. #50
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by suntzu
    Somebody tell me how this is an illegal immigrant issue? It is a police shooting. Right or wrong protocols were enforced. The guy doing the shooting did not not know if kids, monkeys's or aliens were in the truck. The point and discusiion is:Should they have shot and why or why not. IMO shooting fro a helo when there appeared to be no apparent threat was reckless.
    Agreed, some of us are not looking at this as a illegal alien or even common thief running from police issue. We are only asking if the officer were operation withing the law. Should law enforcement be free to operate without any restrictions? Is the Government bound by the restrictions of law or is it free to do anything in the interest of enforcing the law?
    My motive for questioning their authority is completely selfish on my part. If the Government can do this to the people who I may not approve of, whats to stop them from doing it to me?

    Michael
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  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    I'd be willing to bet that they just didn't randomly fire. They more than likely were authorized to do so from a higher up.
    Shooters from helicopters just dont start shooting without having some sort of dialogue with troops on the ground.
    So if a higher up told them to break the law, that would be OK?

    I want to know what justified the shooting in terms of the law; not in terms of "illegals" as that was an unknown at the moment. Not in terms of fleeing; plenty of idiots engaged in minor misdemeanors will flee.

    The law specifies when lethal force may be used, and I want to know (if anyone has it or knows it please post) which TX
    law allows what was done? And forget the BP stuff and the crossing issue, they are side issues. The shooting was done by TX DPS inside TX and it is TX law on the use of lethal force which must have been followed, even if a supervisor authorized the shooting.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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  7. #52
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    I'd be willing to bet that they just didn't randomly fire. They more than likely were authorized to do so from a higher up.
    Shooters from helicopters just dont start shooting without having some sort of dialogue with troops on the ground.
    The question would then be were those orders within the law and or policy? If so I do not have a problem with the officers actions.

    Michael

  8. #53
    Senior Member Array Zsnake's Avatar
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    Give that man a cigar and more ammo and send him out again!

    HE (and his ilk) are protecting the U.S. of A. from illegal drugs, aliens, terrorists, diseases, higher unemployment and a host of other calamities that plague us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zsnake View Post
    Give that man a cigar and more ammo and send him out again!

    HE (and his ilk) are protecting the U.S. of A. from illegal drugs, aliens, terrorists, diseases, higher unemployment and a host of other calamities that plague us.
    Uh, here we try to live by the rule of law, not the rule of the gun. On DC we constantly discuss scenarios and weigh
    whether using a gun would be lawful or not in a given situation. That is a fair question for this situation as well.

    There are laws which spell out precisely when lethal force may be used. These laws need to be obeyed by everyone
    unless there is a specific LE exemption written into a portion of the law.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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  10. #55
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Some here seem to believe that requiring law enforcement to operate within the law is somehow being soft on crime. I wonder if they might change their minds if they are ever on the other end of that unrestricted power. If they ever have a gun stuck in their ear at a traffic stop because some overzealous officer doesn't care if they have a permit to carry that hand cannon or not. He is after all trying to protect us.

    Michael

  11. #56
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    Have the bleeding hearts ever thought about the fact, that if these people had not illegally crossed the border, they would still be alive?

    On the other hand, we could use this as a way to solve prison overcrowding in this country. Empty out the prisons and deposit them inside Mexico, Guatemala, Chile and other southern hemisphere countries. I'm sure they would welcome them with open arms.
    Freedom doesn't come free. It is bought and paid for by the lives and blood of our men and women in uniform.

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  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    From a helicopter, there is no such thing as a sharpshooter.
    Well... As a door gunner on a UH-1C assault helicopter, with a M-60 machine gun on his lap, spraying ammo all over the place, I eventually hit what I was aiming at. That was pretty sharp, and I was shooting. Therefore, I was a "sharp shooter">
    I think, therefore I am...

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  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    Have the bleeding hearts ever thought about the fact, that if these people had not illegally crossed the border, they would still be alive?

    On the other hand, we could use this as a way to solve prison overcrowding in this country. Empty out the prisons and deposit them inside Mexico, Guatemala, Chile and other southern hemisphere countries. I'm sure they would welcome them with open arms.
    You are looking at this from the point of view of hindsight. Going by the only source of information we have right now they fired on a vehicle that was fleeing police. The thought it was drugs. It ended up being illegals.
    Would your tune be different today if it was an estranged hubby with his wife and kids at gunpoint that the police did not know about? It just happened that the folks killed were illegals. Shoot first and sort them out later is not how LE should work.
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    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

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  14. #59
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    Have the bleeding hearts ever thought about the fact, that if these people had not illegally crossed the border, they would still be alive?

    On the other hand, we could use this as a way to solve prison overcrowding in this country. Empty out the prisons and deposit them inside Mexico, Guatemala, Chile and other southern hemisphere countries. I'm sure they would welcome them with open arms.
    Define bleeding hearts. Am I a bleeding heart if I demand my government work within the law? If I believe that a government who is free to ignore its own law is a danger to my freedom?
    Shouldn't everyone question the actions of their Government to make sure it never oversteps the powers granted it?

    Michael
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  15. #60
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    So if a higher up told them to break the law, that would be OK?
    It's never OK and you know it,so dont start that silly liberal crap with me.

    Let me make it real simple for you.

    Cop in helicopters with guns just dont randomly shoot at people unless they are told to do so, in fact they have to be authorized to shoot.
    It has to be requested by someone on the ground.

    I'm going to go with the assumption that they knew a heck of a lot more about the facts of the situation than the news media and all of the internet armchair commandos that tend to second quess everything about everything without really understanding anything about anything.

    IF the cops were found in the wrong, then they will pay for it. Their actions will be scrutinized, rehashed,discussed and even cussed by the investigators, the people that make a living doing this very thing, and they will have video,radio transmission records, dept.policy and yes...even state law, along with depositions from every LEO that laid eyes on the situation to use at their discretion in order make a judgement and rule that it is either a good shoot or a bad shoot.

    It is entirely likey that the driver will be charged with the deaths of the ones that got shot, because beleive it or not, he made the decision to flee.

    Eventually we'll find out how it goes. Until then, all of this speculation and discussion of things that we really dont know seems fruitless.
    bigdogtx likes this.
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