Bad-Cop shoots at truck tires, kills illegals - Page 5

Bad-Cop shoots at truck tires, kills illegals

This is a discussion on Bad-Cop shoots at truck tires, kills illegals within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by HotGuns :SNIP: IF the cops were found in the wrong, then they will pay for it. Their actions will be scrutinized, rehashed,discussed ...

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Thread: Bad-Cop shoots at truck tires, kills illegals

  1. #61
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    :SNIP:
    IF the cops were found in the wrong, then they will pay for it. Their actions will be scrutinized, rehashed,discussed and even cussed by the investigators, the people that make a living doing this very thing, and they will have video,radio transmission records, dept.policy and yes...even state law, along with depositions from every LEO that laid eyes on the situation to use at their discretion in order make a judgement and rule that it is either a good shoot or a bad shoot.

    :SNIP:
    For me this is the all we can ask for. In most cases, with some exceptions, I do not have a problem when something bad happens to law breakers. But I expect the law to be obeyed by both sides. I do not believe that is being soft on criminals.

    Michael


  2. #62
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    I must be totally missing something here. The police shot at a vehicle that did not stop when ordered. Is that a litmus test now for officers to fire at a vehicle?
    Nope, not on that factor alone.

    Fleeing from a mile beyond the border in an area rife with practically nothing but drug running and illegal crossing into the country via crossing the zone in question? I'd say yes, on the tires to stop the vehicle. Worrisome folks in the bed were struck? Yes. But, justified to shoot to stop in the circumstances given? Yes, IMO.

    In any other locale where it could be questioned what they're doing (ie, the light-industrial business area in Otay Mesa, CA, just over the border, or with homes/residents nearby), I'd say absolutely not. Nor in any other "town" type environment in which, as you say, it could be any one of a hundred things.

    Depends on exactly what they truly saw, whether they'd been tracking it/them crossing the actual border, whether a string of other mules/couriers/coyotes had been tracked and/or taken in that stretch recently (even frequently), or whether they'd gotten other intel. Can't know for certain what exactly was known or unknown at the time, beyond what's been reported so far. All of this assumes the factors we're aware of were true at the time, as reported.
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  3. #63
    Senior Member Array SFury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    Some here seem to believe that requiring law enforcement to operate within the law is somehow being soft on crime. I wonder if they might change their minds if they are ever on the other end of that unrestricted power. If they ever have a gun stuck in their ear at a traffic stop because some overzealous officer doesn't care if they have a permit to carry that hand cannon or not. He is after all trying to protect us.

    Michael
    I'm not certain how you are equating this to a traffic stop. You know, with someone who stopped fleeing instead of them keep going.

    That alone allows for extreme measures to be taken.


    You are looking at this from the point of view of hindsight. Going by the only source of information we have right now they fired on a vehicle that was fleeing police. The thought it was drugs. It ended up being illegals.
    Would your tune be different today if it was an estranged hubby with his wife and kids at gunpoint that the police did not know about? It just happened that the folks killed were illegals. Shoot first and sort them out later is not how LE should work.
    If an estranged spouse had kidnapped their kids and had them hidden in the back of a vehicle and committed other crimes that they were being chased for and shot at for, had the kids died I would feel no sadness there either. I was not responsible for the truly poor decision making that occurred. The abductor was.

    I'm not certain why you care when someone blatantly disregards the laws and either gets killed or causes others to get killed bothers you. When dangerous actions are carried out, forcing dangerous actions to be taken by LEOs to prevent further endangerment of others sad things sometimes happen. You can't blame the LEOs, that's just stupid. You blame the person who caused the LEOs/armed citizen to act. That's a sentiment stated over and over here for good reasons.



    At some point, people need to understand that we have to allow the police to act with appropriate force as they did in the article being discussed. If not we will be like the UK with officers oftentimes going around unarmed while the criminals could be. How would we amend the saying, "When seconds count the police are minutes away."

    Would it be - "When seconds count, the police are minutes away, and the armed police are an hour away!"

  4. #64
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    You would feel no sadness if innocent kids had died after being abducted...Okee Dokeee That is truly sad

    I'm not certain why you care when someone blatantly disregards the laws and either gets killed or causes others to get killed bothers you. When dangerous actions are carried out, forcing dangerous actions to be taken by LEOs to prevent further endangerment of others sad things sometimes happen. You can't blame the LEOs, that's just stupid. You blame the person who caused the LEOs/armed citizen to act. That's a sentiment stated over and over here for good reasons.
    The point is I have a problem with LEO's shotting from a helicopter in an attempt to "shoot out the itres". That is the most idiotic comment I have heard. If you are shooting from a helo at tires you darn well know that there is a very good chance you will cause and injury or death.

    Shooting at a suspect that you are not 100 percent certain of the cargo is dangerous and IMO should not be authorized unles the driver is putting innocents at risk which in this case does not appear to be the case.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    From a helicopter, there is no such thing as a sharpshooter.
    I know a sniper who made a kill at 800 yards from a helicopter. True, if you factor out the helicopter that's point blank range for a Marine sniper, but it's fairly "sharp" nonetheless.

  6. #66
    Senior Member Array SFury's Avatar
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    You would feel no sadness if innocent kids had died after being abducted...Okee Dokeee That is truly sad
    There are enough things to be sad about. If I was sad about all the injustices in the world I would have committed suicide long ago.

    At some point you hear sad news, and move on because there is nothing that could have been done to prevent it. People make poor choices every day of every year, and people die because of those choices each day in the US. An absolute truth in the death statistics released every year.

    If you want to be paralyzed by feeling for those that ended up in bad situations and died go right ahead. That's not how I live. I prefer to move forward, not backwards.

  7. #67
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chang_He View Post
    I know a sniper who made a kill at 800 yards from a helicopter. True, if you factor out the helicopter that's point blank range for a Marine sniper, but it's fairly "sharp" nonetheless.
    Really, can you tell us the story please?
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    It's never OK and you know it,so dont start that silly liberal crap with me.

    Let me make it real simple for you.

    Cop in helicopters with guns just dont randomly shoot at people unless they are told to do so, in fact they have to be authorized to shoot.
    It has to be requested by someone on the ground.

    I'm going to go with the assumption that they knew a heck of a lot more about the facts of the situation than the news media and all of the internet armchair commandos that tend to second quess everything about everything without really understanding anything about anything.

    IF the cops were found in the wrong, then they will pay for it. Their actions will be scrutinized, rehashed,discussed and even cussed by the investigators, the people that make a living doing this very thing, and they will have video,radio transmission records, dept.policy and yes...even state law, along with depositions from every LEO that laid eyes on the situation to use at their discretion in order make a judgement and rule that it is either a good shoot or a bad shoot.

    It is entirely likey that the driver will be charged with the deaths of the ones that got shot, because beleive it or not, he made the decision to flee.

    Eventually we'll find out how it goes. Until then, all of this speculation and discussion of things that we really dont know seems fruitless.
    Really? That statement was necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by GlassWolf View Post
    Liberal media playing to the heart-strings of the pro-illegals voters. Obama has done everything in his power to make them feel welcomed here, and the media is playing right into it.
    Oh man, this thread is officially too much.
    BigJon10125 likes this.

  9. #69
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    I dont feel real bad for the illegals, but I start to worry any time law enforcement of any type starts shooting in a wanton manner.
    CaveJohnson and Hopyard like this.
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  10. #70
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    Follow up-- State has asked the Feds to look into the incident.

    Feds are asked to look into pickup shooting | International | News from Fort Worth, Dall...
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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  11. #71
    Senior Member Array SFury's Avatar
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    What a waste of time and money. The official review done found that all procedures were followed. There should be no further resources wasted on this matter.

    This quote sums it up well in that article:
    "I can't find any place or anywhere protocol wasn't followed," Miller. said "Looks like everything was done according to DPS policy. It's unfortunate some people died, but I guess the lesson is: Don't be running from the law."
    The bold part being the most important part.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFury View Post
    What a waste of time and money. The official review done found that all procedures were followed. There should be no further resources wasted on this matter.

    This quote sums it up well in that article:


    The bold part being the most important part.
    Maybe, all policies were followed, but isn't it best to see if: 1) an outside investigation agrees with
    that determination; 2) the policies are actually legal, in both State and Federal law.

    Sounds like a wise move by the State, IMO.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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  13. #73
    Ex Member Array CaveJohnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFury View Post
    What a waste of time and money. The official review done found that all procedures were followed. There should be no further resources wasted on this matter.

    This quote sums it up well in that article:


    The bold part being the most important part.
    Even if the law is trying to murder you?!

  14. #74
    Distinguished Member Array BigStick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaveJohnson View Post
    Even if the law is trying to murder you?!
    "The Law" was not trying to murder anyone in this specific case, and it was instigated by the running from the law. Wether or not you think what happened in this case was legal or right, the statement in question here stands. Don't be running from the law, is a pretty good rule to live by. Don't run, and they won't have to try to prevent you from running.
    Walk softly ...

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFury View Post
    What a waste of time and money. The official review done found that all procedures were followed. There should be no further resources wasted on this matter.

    This quote sums it up well in that article:


    The bold part being the most important part.
    Quote Originally Posted by CaveJohnson View Post
    Even if the law is trying to murder you?!
    Quote Originally Posted by BigStick View Post
    "The Law" was not trying to murder anyone in this specific case, and it was instigated by the running from the law. Wether or not you think what happened in this case was legal or right, the statement in question here stands. Don't be running from the law, is a pretty good rule to live by. Don't run, and they won't have to try to prevent you from running.


    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^BigStick^^^^^^^

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