Bad-Cop shoots at truck tires, kills illegals - Page 7

Bad-Cop shoots at truck tires, kills illegals

This is a discussion on Bad-Cop shoots at truck tires, kills illegals within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by tcox4freedom Could it also be that terrorists with dirty bombs may be trying to make it into a populated area. Personally, I ...

Page 7 of 11 FirstFirst ... 34567891011 LastLast
Results 91 to 105 of 160
Like Tree189Likes

Thread: Bad-Cop shoots at truck tires, kills illegals

  1. #91
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    TX/NH
    Posts
    6,011
    Quote Originally Posted by tcox4freedom View Post
    Could it also be that terrorists with dirty bombs may be trying to make it into a populated area. Personally, I say get the officer a 50cal & a few 1000 rounds!

    If enough illegals (aka- CRIMINALS) get their butts shot off, illegals (aka- CRIMINALS) may think twice!

    -
    You and others seem to be forgetting one big fact:The officer did not know that illegals were in the back of the truck. Do you think he would have been ordered to fire if that was the case? The officer was following orders and had no clue what was in the truck except for what he was told.
    And another tid bit, he was not aiming to kill. Odds are about even whether the officer feels as good as folks in this forum are about taking a life.

    Good grief, he was not a sniper trying to take out an HVT.
    goldshellback likes this.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8


  2. #92
    Distinguished Member Array Arborigine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Calaveras County, California
    Posts
    1,964
    They need tiny heat-seeking missiles on ICE choppers. Take out the engine and maybe let the passengers in the bed survive.
    I don't always have nothing to say, but when I do, I post it on Facebook.

  3. #93
    Senior Member Array SFury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    757
    The fact that the cargo was unknown makes no difference. The drivers were running from the law.

    The officer in the helicopter got the order to stop the truck. The officer did their job. It matters not that the cargo was unknown. The correct choice was made in regards to the most common issue they faced. So the cargo ended up not being drugs but illegal aliens. Oh well. That's the way it goes. The people who got shot made it to the end of their road. They fulfilled the only two guarantees in life. Death and taxes. Life has no guarantees to fairness.

    What happened to the cargo in the truck was the responsibility of the driver breaking the law, and not any LEO. The lives lost were lost because they trusted the wrong smugglers. Never forget that. It's only one of two details that matter. The other being the drivers did not stop when ordered to. The smugglers are the ones who escalated the encounter, and they are the ones who are guilty of many crimes.

  4. #94
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    12,124
    Quote Originally Posted by SFury View Post
    The fact that the cargo was unknown makes no difference. The drivers were running from the law.

    The officer in the helicopter got the order to stop the truck. The officer did their job. It matters not that the cargo was unknown. The correct choice was made in regards to the most common issue they faced. So the cargo ended up not being drugs but illegal aliens. Oh well. That's the way it goes. The people who got shot made it to the end of their road. They fulfilled the only two guarantees in life. Death and taxes. Life has no guarantees to fairness.

    What happened to the cargo in the truck was the responsibility of the driver breaking the law, and not any LEO. The lives lost were lost because they trusted the wrong smugglers. Never forget that. It's only one of two details that matter. The other being the drivers did not stop when ordered to. The smugglers are the ones who escalated the encounter, and they are the ones who are guilty of many crimes.
    RE: Part in bold, the issue is whether or not that was a lawful and justified order to shoot.
    That is the part which is entirely unclear. However many times folks say if you run from the cops you
    deserve to be shot the statement doesn't make it true. Now, on thorough investigation it could
    turn out to be that this was a justified shooting. It could also turn out that it was a huge error.

    We'll know more when The Feds get done with their investigation as requested by the state of
    TX.
    Sig 210 likes this.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  5. #95
    Distinguished Member Array tcox4freedom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina USA
    Posts
    1,715
    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    You and others seem to be forgetting one big fact:The officer did not know that illegals were in the back of the truck. Do you think he would have been ordered to fire if that was the case? The officer was following orders and had no clue what was in the truck except for what he was told.
    And another tid bit, he was not aiming to kill. Odds are about even whether the officer feels as good as folks in this forum are about taking a life.

    Good grief, he was not a sniper trying to take out an HVT.
    I know he wasn't a sniper trying to take out "illegals". I just think he's getting a bad rep from all the bleeding hearts. He is a hero doing his duty & carrying out orders.

    Perhaps if he had a "Barrett" and the training to use it, he would have been able to more effectively STOP the vehicle. (50 cal to the engine block and a vehicle won't get far.)

    -
    Miamieddie likes this.

  6. #96
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    12,124
    Quote Originally Posted by tcox4freedom View Post
    I know he wasn't a sniper trying to take out "illegals". I just think he's getting a bad rep from all the bleeding hearts. He is a hero doing his duty & carrying out orders.

    Perhaps if he had a "Barrett" and the training to use it, he would have been able to more effectively STOP the vehicle. (50 cal to the engine block and a vehicle won't get far.)

    -
    Re:To part in bold. That justifies anything, right?
    CaveJohnson likes this.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  7. #97
    Distinguished Member Array Arborigine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Calaveras County, California
    Posts
    1,964
    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Re:To part in bold. That justifies anything, right?
    Pretty much. These Officer's job is to protect our nation's borders from invasion by illegal foreign intruders. The invaders think it is a game, and laugh at them. Our legislators not only weaken their ability to get the job done, but crucify anyone who tries too hard. Instead of "playing nice", they should be using effective methods to repell or stop the invaders and incarcerate those apprehended, and word will spread to stop crossing the border. Play hard or go home.
    Miamieddie and CIBMike like this.
    I don't always have nothing to say, but when I do, I post it on Facebook.

  8. #98
    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    1,952
    Quote Originally Posted by Arborigine View Post
    Pretty much. These Officer's job is to protect our nation's borders from invasion by illegal foreign intruders.
    If you read my previous post in this thread you will see that I am rather hard lined with regards to my opinion of illegal aliens and whole heatedly support draconian actions to prevent, locate, detain, and remove them. However, I don't implicitly agree with the justifications being used in this situation. Unless the agents had absolute knowledge of who / what was in the vehicle, this should have been treated as a law enforcement, not military action. Under this condition, they should have had to follow defined protocols for the use of lethal force due to the risks, mostly to civilians. The justification of "hero doing duty" or "carrying out orders" is a very slippery slope that leads to a militaristic police state. Lets not go there.

  9. #99
    VIP Member Array SatCong's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    3,049
    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    I live right down the road from La Joya,the border is about 2 miles South of the Highway,High speed chases by Border Patrol and other LEO agencies are normal,either drug or Illegal smugglers.
    What if one or more of these vehicles were carrying Terrorists an d Explosives into the United States to carry out attacks?How do you know who is and isn't a threat to our Country.
    IMHO anybody attempting to enter the US Illegally that when ordered to stop and tries to run should be stopped with deadly force.
    To bad it happen but they broke the law and wouldn't stop. I agree with you.
    NRA PATRON LIFE
    BROWN WATER NAVY

  10. #100
    Distinguished Member Array tcox4freedom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina USA
    Posts
    1,715
    Quote Originally Posted by noway2 View Post
    If you read my previous post in this thread you will see that I am rather hard lined with regards to my opinion of illegal aliens and whole heatedly support draconian actions to prevent, locate, detain, and remove them. However, I don't implicitly agree with the justifications being used in this situation. Unless the agents had absolute knowledge of who / what was in the vehicle, this should have been treated as a law enforcement, not military action. Under this condition, they should have had to follow defined protocols for the use of lethal force due to the risks, mostly to civilians. The justification of "hero doing duty" or "carrying out orders" is a very slippery slope that leads to a militaristic police state. Lets not go there.
    Don't misunderstand my posts. I "am" going under the assumption there was some intelligence we are not privy to; and the officer sought or received orders to disable the vehicle. There just seems to be way to many people here that see the military & LEOs as the enemy. (I see them as HEROS; unless they do something stupid & cowardly.)

    -

  11. #101
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    12,124
    I'm uncertain if the officers knew whether or not the driver was armed, the article
    doesn't say. They clearly didn't know about the payload in the truck.

    This US Supreme Court case is perhaps relevant concerning the driver, not the passengers of course
    : Tennessee v. Garner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    From Wikipedia's summation of the case:

    "Law enforcement officers pursuing an unarmed suspect may use deadly force to prevent escape
    only if the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others."

    From the case, Held: "Held: The Tennessee statute is unconstitutional insofar as it authorizes the use of deadly force against, as in this case, an apparently unarmed, nondangerous fleeing suspect; such force may not be used unless necessary to prevent the escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others. Pp. 497 U. S. 7-22. "

    According to the article the justification for the shooting was to stop a suspected drug shipment.

    Nothing was said of the driver being armed or trying to ram or otherwise harm anyone. Perhaps he was, but that is part of the total circumstances which need looking at by The Feds; as is happening since TX had the good sense to ask for their review.

    As for those who would summarily shoot suspected illegals, you are advocating something
    which is illegal under our law, and the equivalent of murder by any moral understanding of that term.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  12. #102
    Distinguished Member Array Arborigine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Calaveras County, California
    Posts
    1,964
    Once again, subject to interpretation.
    "Law enforcement officers pursuing an unarmed suspect may use deadly force to prevent escape
    only if the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others."
    I would say allowing a drug shipment to get through poses a threat of death or injury to others. Drugs kill junkies (no loss to society) , and innocents get caught in shootings when drug dealers are in conflict. Even if the cargo was known to be illegal aliens, car chases often result in death or injury to innocents as well as "cargo", and simply letting them go is unacceptable. Stop them at the source.
    I don't always have nothing to say, but when I do, I post it on Facebook.

  13. #103
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    12,124
    Quote Originally Posted by Arborigine View Post
    Once again, subject to interpretation.
    "Law enforcement officers pursuing an unarmed suspect may use deadly force to prevent escape
    only if the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others."
    I would say allowing a drug shipment to get through poses a threat of death or injury to others. Drugs kill junkies (no loss to society) , and innocents get caught in shootings when drug dealers are in conflict. Even if the cargo was known to be illegal aliens, car chases often result in death or injury to innocents as well as "cargo", and simply letting them go is unacceptable. Stop them at the source.
    Well, there was no drug shipment. So much for that rationalization of an excuse for firing on the
    truck.

    By the logic used in the above post almost any car on I-45 could be freely fired upon.

    Also, you need to read the entirety of the USSC ruling and not just the tiny part I posted.
    They thoroughly analyze the circumstances under which lethal force may be used, and boil it down
    to the essentials.

    Unless the truck driver was armed, threatened the officers with the arm, was attempting
    to ram those on the ground, their "probable cause" for ordering the shooting seems fairly slim, IMO.
    Again, let's see what The Feds do with it. My hunch is that it probably was legitimized by things
    we don't know, because if it was illegitimate TX would be trying to cover it over and keep the Feds
    away instead of asking them to assist.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  14. #104
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    TX/NH
    Posts
    6,011
    Quote Originally Posted by Arborigine View Post
    Once again, subject to interpretation.
    "Law enforcement officers pursuing an unarmed suspect may use deadly force to prevent escape
    only if the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others."
    I would say allowing a drug shipment to get through poses a threat of death or injury to others. Drugs kill junkies (no loss to society) , and innocents get caught in shootings when drug dealers are in conflict. Even if the cargo was known to be illegal aliens, car chases often result in death or injury to innocents as well as "cargo", and simply letting them go is unacceptable. Stop them at the source.
    And once again we are looking at the end result which was not even drug runners. So even with your reasoning they should not have shot. That is the problem. The officers did not know what was the cargo. They guessed and were wrong. That is the difference between us (or use to be) other countries. We don't want police going around shooting on assumptions (yes, I know it was not the intent to kill but anybody knows that shooting from a helo involves a lot of risk).

    This is really an arguement about whether a LEO should shoot in what situations. If there is no imminent danger to innocents and they are not sure about what is going on then they should not shoot.

    I do not blame the LEO and I bet he feels bad about the loss of life because he was told it was drugs, or at least somebody was told that that made the decision.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

  15. #105
    Ex Member Array CaveJohnson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    329
    It always scares me when people give authority figures so much leeway. "Didn't want to get shot? Shouldn't have ran!" type of mentality is sickening to me really.
    Hopyard likes this.

Page 7 of 11 FirstFirst ... 34567891011 LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

bad cops

,
bad cops ky
,

border patrol shoots truck of illegals

,
caltrops on i95
,

dps helicopter defensive carry

,

dps helicopter shoots

,

dps shoots illegals

,

guatemalan illegals shot

,

helicopter shooting illegals

,
helicopter shoots border illegals in pickup truck
,
illegals running out of truck
,

tires shot from helicopter

Click on a term to search for related topics.