Bank owner celebrated for "catching the bad guy" - not sure how I feel about it - Page 2

Bank owner celebrated for "catching the bad guy" - not sure how I feel about it

This is a discussion on Bank owner celebrated for "catching the bad guy" - not sure how I feel about it within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by HotGuns You are assuming that the cops didnt need his help. You have already established the fact that the guy was on ...

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Thread: Bank owner celebrated for "catching the bad guy" - not sure how I feel about it

  1. #16
    Ex Member Array CaveJohnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    You are assuming that the cops didnt need his help. You have already established the fact that the guy was on drugs and not in his right mind. In my dealing with drug infested criminals, that is when they are stupid enough to try anything.

    We dont know what may have transpired. Its very possible that the cops may have been fired upon, its very possible that a cop or the badguy ended up dead. We could "what if it to death, but how would you have felt if there was a high speed chase involved and the BG ended up ramming into a car load of kids?
    I've been in Law Enforcement for 12 years. I have often wondered what may have happened or not happened if I was not there to act. I have often stated, on this board, that I would much rather someone act to do what it right, than not act because it wasnt their problem or it was "too risky".

    Yeah, it can be dangerous. Yes, it is risky. Yes someone could have been killed.

    As it was, the BG was apprehended without firing a shot, an outcome that was probably the best possible scenario of many that could have transpired.
    The problem is, the guy stole some money. He didn't just rape, kill or assault someone. He didn't commit arson or a crime he really, really needed to be stopped for.

    It's some money that gets replaced, and it's not worth the possibility that he pulls a .357 out and kills the bank manager. This is why stores don't pursue, the cost of the goods vs. the liability to their employees isn't proportional. I may not like it, but I fully understand why it's done that way.


  2. #17
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    The problem is, the guy stole some money. He didn't just rape, kill or assault someone. He didn't commit arson or a crime he really, really needed to be stopped for.
    Not that time.

    How many times would he have gotten away with just "stealing money" before someone got killed?

    Your FBI behavioral analysis guys would argue that it's just a matter of time.
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  3. #18
    Member Array LaraCroft10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Not that time.

    How many times would he have gotten away with just "stealing money" before someone got killed?

    Your FBI behavioral analysis guys would argue that it's just a matter of time.
    With that mindset, you're holding the criminal responsible for a crime he hasn't actually committed yet. That's not fair. You have to respond to the situation in the here and now, not the hypothetical future.
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  4. #19
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    While I wouldn't have reacted as the bank president did, I'm not eager to condemn him, either. He sounds like a well-intentioned, stand-up guy who cares about his employees; the kind most communities could use more of.

    He's very lucky things ended as well as they did. He placed himself in grave danger by chasing and confronting a potentially armed robber with his own firearm. He really needs to think about what he and/or his family would've been put through if he'd had to shoot the robber, or if he'd been shot himself. A sobering thought.

    But as they say, all's well that ends well. He was certainly lucky.
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  5. #20
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    You have to respond to the situation in the here and now, not the hypothetical future.
    Thankyou for that. That is exactly what the Bank Manager did.
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  6. #21
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    This is hard one. But having his position as an executive his first responsibility is to his staff. That's what I would have done or like to think what I'd do.

    The alarm was probably sounded very early given it was a bank. As a bank president, he had to know the cops were close and they have protocols for this. The first protocol is to give him what he wants and the second is to not run after the robber but observe. Personally I hope I would protect my staff first and let the cops handle the bad guy.. Tough one.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Thankyou for that. That is exactly what the Bank Manager did.
    I think you missed what he was saying. You can't say he should have stopped him with a gun now, because he could have done something worse later. That's a logical fallacy that made Minority Report a story.

    For the same reason you can't lock up people before they commit a crime, is why it wasn't really advisable for him to do what he did.

    He had balls to do it, and it's good he didn't get hurt, but it could have ended terribly for him and it's why most people shouldn't do it. They're not trained for such encounters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Piratesailor View Post
    This is hard one. But having his position as an executive his first responsibility is to his staff. That's what I would have done or like to think what I'd do.

    The alarm was probably sounded very early given it was a bank. As a bank president, he had to know the cops were close and they have protocols for this. The first protocol is to give him what he wants and the second is to not run after the robber but observe. Personally I hope I would protect my staff first and let the cops handle the bad guy.. Tough one.
    The guy had left the store and was no threat to his staff, that's the thing. At that point the only reason to stop him was the money, and he never really was much of a threat as he didn't have a gun anyway, but in the bank they wouldn't know that.

  8. #23
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    They're not trained for such encounters.
    Most citizens that "help" arent trained for such encounters.

    Lucky for us, many of them dont let that stop them. There are thousands of encounters where citizens succesfully intervened in spite of the fact that they had no training.
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  9. #24
    Ex Member Array CaveJohnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Most citizens that "help" arent trained for such encounters.

    Lucky for us, many of them dont let that stop them. There are thousands of encounters where citizens succesfully intervened in spite of the fact that they had no training.
    So we should have grandma shaking holding her Ruger GP100 and getting stabbed in the neck because she got a license and barely ever shot the fricken' thing?

    If this guy had been standing against a violent criminal, it's different.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaveJohnson View Post
    So we should have grandma shaking holding her Ruger GP100 and getting stabbed in the neck because she got a license and barely ever shot the fricken' thing?
    Yeah because that's the same as what happened.

    Here, let me try: "So we should let the robber run off and do a rampage at a local school and kill 43 children?"


    It turned out well, and what he did (as far as I can tell) was legal. You may not agree with it, but that's what it is. You can't what-if every situation. What IF something else happened? Who cares, it didn't.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by linuss View Post
    Yeah because that's the same as what happened.

    Here, let me try: "So we should let the robber run off and do a rampage at a local school and kill 43 children?"


    It turned out well, and what he did (as far as I can tell) was legal. You may not agree with it, but that's what it is. You can't what-if every situation. What IF something else happened? Who cares, it didn't.
    You're right, but Hot is saying it should happen more often and those situations will happen. The trade off between the risk and the likely minimal amount of money the guy had just isn't great enough for it to be worth it.

  12. #27
    Member Array LaraCroft10's Avatar
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    He sounds like a well-intentioned, stand-up guy who cares about his employees; the kind most communities could use more of.
    Well-intentioned, yes. I agree with this statement, but he also seems a bit irrational and emotional. He admitted that he ran after the guy because he was angry about how the guy threatened his employees. Locking the doors and protecting your employees from the inside would have also illustrated that he cares about his employees, as well as demonstrated more level-headedness.

    Quote Originally Posted by linuss View Post
    What IF something else happened? Who cares, it didn't.
    I care because it portrays the message to others that running after bad guys brandishing your gun because you want to "save the day" or because it is a personal "victory" for you to "catch him" (the latter two quotes direct from the article and a big implication of the motives in this particular story) is the right thing to do. And REGARDLESS of the outcome (I think we all agree it ended well), it was a display of ego and poor judgment.
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  13. #28
    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    What's that quote...... “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men should do nothing.”....?

    Good, bad, right, or wrong, justice prevailed. I'm not a fan of, nor promote bad justice, but BG was caught with equal and/or greater violence. THAT's what it takes more often than not.
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  14. #29
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    It's not necessarily a reflection on CCW'ers as all business owners are allowed to carry inside their own business, little different from a customer with permit doing this. In some states what he did would be perfectly legal since he was stopping an escaping felon - but I don't think MO is one of those states. No matter when the alarm was triggered, the manager had no way of knowing how long it would take police to arrive. The guy was clearly incapable of safely driving a vehicle, so another crime was prevented and potential for serious injury to others was diverted. I think the good definitely outweighed the bad on this one and anyone who presses charges is a sorry excuse for a human being. All that said, he probably should've just locked the doors behind the guy and got everyone in the bank behind available cover. The second bank employee had the right idea as a person is more inclined to listen to 2 others instead of a one on one situation and the guy just robbed a bank, if in that situation I'd keep a gun on him as well.

  15. #30
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    One thing to keep in mind is that in many such situation one does not have the luxury of having lots of time to completely assess all the aspects of how to/when act. After the fact one can pick the situation apart as has been done countless times on this forum.
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