Bank owner celebrated for "catching the bad guy" - not sure how I feel about it

Bank owner celebrated for "catching the bad guy" - not sure how I feel about it

This is a discussion on Bank owner celebrated for "catching the bad guy" - not sure how I feel about it within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; President of Troy, Mo., bank pulls gun, nabs masked robber in parking lot : Stltoday This story irks me. First of all, I'm not convinced ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array LaraCroft10's Avatar
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    Bank owner celebrated for "catching the bad guy" - not sure how I feel about it

    President of Troy, Mo., bank pulls gun, nabs masked robber in parking lot : Stltoday

    This story irks me.

    First of all, I'm not convinced he was technically backed by the law to do what he did. The BG was already in his truck about to drive away when the bank owner decided to run out there and point a gun at him.

    Also, was there really a need for the second man to get involved? "Now you have two guns on you." Sounds like a power trip escalating...

    And then they pull him from the truck onto the ground and keep the gun pointed at him until the cops got there - which they noted was only 60 seconds after the man left the bank doors.

    From what I have learned from you very knowledgeable people, you don't pull a gun on someone unless you fully intend to pull that trigger, and you don't pull the trigger unless your LIFE IS IN DANGER. At the point in which the bank owner decided to draw his gun, nobody's life was in danger.

    I believe he should have stayed inside, locked the bank door, and kept himself and his staff safe. Besides, like the article said, it took the cops 60 seconds to get there anyway, undoubtedly because the tellers had already called the police. They would have caught him no problem without this dude's help (especially since he was drugged out and didn't resist arrest).

    To me, it sounds like the guy has been itching to play Cop forever and seized the chance to do so - the article said he was "so giddy he couldn't sleep".

    And I think that's crap. It gives concealed carry license holders a bad reputation. That we are just chompin' at the bit to use our guns and are feel we are just like cops because we are armed. Vigilante justice!

    But this article appears to be hailing the man as a hero, so maybe I'm in the minority.

    Blah.
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    Yeah... I'm on the fence about this one as well... I'll have to mull it over for a while, but I can't say if I would have played it that way or not.
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    They did fine. Threaten one of mine in a similar fashion, and I'm not sure I would show that level of restraint.
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    Ex Member Array CaveJohnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaraCroft10 View Post
    And I think that's crap. It gives concealed carry license holders a bad reputation. That we are just chompin' at the bit to use our guns and are feel we are just like cops because we are armed. Vigilante justice!

    But this article appears to be hailing the man as a hero, so maybe I'm in the minority.

    Blah.
    Sadly many people are like that, guns, badges or authority make them NEED to use it, or they got those things in the first place to get into these situations.

    This guy could've put himself in deep poop, that would have been the worst part. Maybe he had an accomplice with an AK-47 in the truck and he dies for pursuing, you know?

    I don't think he was wrong in general, but the way it was handled and they way he acted afterwards weird me out to be honest.
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    Member Array LaraCroft10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaveJohnson View Post
    the way it was handled and they way he acted afterwards weird me out to be honest.
    THIS, so hard.

    I ended up leaving a comment on the article. Pretty much all of the 40 previous comments were in favor of his actions and congratulating him, and my staunch disagreement sticks out like a sore thumb. Bring on the flame war...
    Proud owner of a Sig Sauer P238 SAS Explosive Space Modulator.

    "I played the powerless in too many dark scenes. And I was blessed with a birth and a death, and I guess I just want some say in between." - Ani DiFranco, "Talk to me Now."

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaraCroft10 View Post
    THIS, so hard.

    I ended up leaving a comment on the article. Pretty much all of the 40 previous comments were in favor of his actions and congratulating him, and my staunch disagreement sticks out like a sore thumb. Bring on the flame war...
    I'm not going to flame you. We just disagree.
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    Member Array LaraCroft10's Avatar
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    Not you, Mike. You all are pretty respectful on here and good at agreeing to disagree. The commentators on the article, however, are a different story. The people on there are so enthusiastic and excited about the story, I think they may take my post as a personal insult and get a little feisty about it. I probably won't reply anyway, so I guess it won't be much of a war...
    minimalbrat likes this.
    Proud owner of a Sig Sauer P238 SAS Explosive Space Modulator.

    "I played the powerless in too many dark scenes. And I was blessed with a birth and a death, and I guess I just want some say in between." - Ani DiFranco, "Talk to me Now."

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    Just so you know...I like "vigilante justice". It's better than NO justice.

    The dude that got caught was a bank robber. I really don't care how he got caught, I like the fact that he got caught.

    However, in this case there was no "vigilante justice". He committed a crime, a felony crime at that, so the citizen was well within his rights to apprehend, at gunpoint if necessary and detain him.

    I'm just glad that someone had the guts to do what it took. People like that are in the precious minority these days.




    You're feeeeeeling bad that a bank robber got took down and you dont like the way it happened ? WOW.
    Just WOW.

    Sometimes crime gets ugly. Thats just the way it is.
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    Member Array LaraCroft10's Avatar
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    I don't feel bad about it.

    I think he exercised very poor judgment. And yes, I believe it sends people the wrong idea of the philosophy of concealed carry.

    He wants to play the cop, fine, but if that had spiraled out of control and he had shot the robber, I wouldn't feel bad for one second regarding all the legal trouble he would be in. I see a lot of parallels to the controversies of the Martin/Zimmerman case here, but I'm not getting into that one because, like I said, not in the mood for a war about it.

    Considering the dazed state the man was clearly in from the beginning, he would have gotten taken down regardless. The cops didn't need his help.

    It doesn't have to get ugly if you retain the power to keep it from getting that way.
    Proud owner of a Sig Sauer P238 SAS Explosive Space Modulator.

    "I played the powerless in too many dark scenes. And I was blessed with a birth and a death, and I guess I just want some say in between." - Ani DiFranco, "Talk to me Now."

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    Let's suppose the bank president didn't intervene and end the robbery right there. The cops would have probably been on his tail pretty fast which could have led to a high speed chase where more often than not innocents get hurt or killed. Cops don't mess around, and if they even thought the perp was moving for a gun whether he had one or not he would have been swiss cheese. All in all, the perp was stopped cold, and nobody got hurt. I say it was a happy ending.
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    Just finished my second MAG-40 class. Lara, you may wish to take one if you get a chance as the class addresses this and other shoot, don't shoot issues.

    A citizen may make a citizen arrest on a "Known" felon at gun point. BUT IT IS A VERY RISKY ISSUE! If the guy had drove away and the bank manager shot him he would be up for at least Man 1! He was very lucky that the BG gave in!

    Please don't try it at home!
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    Considering the dazed state the man was clearly in from the beginning, he would have gotten taken down regardless. The cops didn't need his help.
    You are assuming that the cops didnt need his help. You have already established the fact that the guy was on drugs and not in his right mind. In my dealing with drug infested criminals, that is when they are stupid enough to try anything.

    We dont know what may have transpired. Its very possible that the cops may have been fired upon, its very possible that a cop or the badguy ended up dead. We could "what if it to death, but how would you have felt if there was a high speed chase involved and the BG ended up ramming into a car load of kids?
    I've been in Law Enforcement for 12 years. I have often wondered what may have happened or not happened if I was not there to act. I have often stated, on this board, that I would much rather someone act to do what it right, than not act because it wasnt their problem or it was "too risky".

    Yeah, it can be dangerous. Yes, it is risky. Yes someone could have been killed.

    As it was, the BG was apprehended without firing a shot, an outcome that was probably the best possible scenario of many that could have transpired.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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    Member Array LaraCroft10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLSurfdog View Post
    Let's suppose the bank president didn't intervene and end the robbery right there. The cops would have probably been on his tail pretty fast which could have led to a high speed chase where more often than not innocents get hurt or killed. Cops don't mess around, and if they even thought the perp was moving for a gun whether he had one or not he would have been swiss cheese. All in all, the perp was stopped cold, and nobody got hurt. I say it was a happy ending.
    This is where situational awareness comes into play. The man didn't even run to his truck, he "calmly walked out" - wouldn't you consider that peculiar behavior for one that just committed a felony? The man wasn't moving fast. I don't think there was a risk for a high speed chase. Especially since they pulled off the mask and the man was so drugged out he couldn't focus.

    Plus, it looks like the cops had been called early on. Perhaps they were nearby. Something else to consider. Does it take long for the cops to get here in my area or not? They got there in 60 seconds. Again, extremely low risk of a high speed chase.

    I agree with you that you need to do whatever necessary to minimize danger to others, but in this situation, the danger was pretty diffuse.

    Happy ending, yes, but the means to the end is what I question.
    minimalbrat likes this.
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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    First i would like to say that for any LEO to say they like vigilante justice they are wrong. That is my opinion as I am sure it is the opinion of some that vigilante justice is fine. Now, as far as this situation. I am on the fence becuase I do not know the laws in that state. There was no threat to the bank president. Now, of course are the what if's. The biggest one is "what if gun fire occured and an innocent bystander got hit" Of course the BG is responsible because he was committing a felony. But I have a problem with a bystander getting hit by gunfire that would not have occured if the bank manager did not follow the BG.

    The second "what if" is "what if a guy in the parking lot, a CC'er, saw only the bank manager pulling his gun on a guy in a car. Things can get ugly there.

    Of course we cheer when things go right. Laws are in place (supposedly) for good reasons.

    Glad the BG was caught and there was no gunfire.

    BTW: I know what ifs can go the other way. What if the man left the parking lot and ran over a kid.......
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    Distinguished Member Array Fitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaraCroft10 View Post
    THIS, so hard.

    I ended up leaving a comment on the article. Pretty much all of the 40 previous comments were in favor of his actions and congratulating him, and my staunch disagreement sticks out like a sore thumb. Bring on the flame war...
    I completely agree with you. Nobody was in imminant danger of death or grevious physical injury when the bank manager pointed the gun at the perp and threatened him with deadly force. The danger was past. The bank manager was persuing the criminal, not defending himself. I don't think the bank manager, a civillian, was justified threatening deadly force at that point. Earlier, probably, but not after the perp has left.

    Fitch
    Last edited by Fitch; November 1st, 2012 at 10:49 AM.
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