Senate bill rewrite lets feds read your e-mail without warrants

This is a discussion on Senate bill rewrite lets feds read your e-mail without warrants within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by gasmitty I'm amused that communication by land-line telephone used to be about the least secure means of communication is now so old-fashioned ...

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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    I'm amused that communication by land-line telephone used to be about the least secure means of communication is now so old-fashioned it's seemingly among the most secure! No digital records of content routinely kept... someone has to be actively 'listening' in order to capture the conversation.
    Not only that, third party actively listening is usually a crime -- wire-taping.
    FAX over ordinary wires should be pretty secure too if you need a written record.

    What is sad is that during the past 15-20 years, we have failed to develop privacy and security
    procedures and laws for electronic communications and have actually moved as far from privacy and
    security as we possibly could go.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doghandler View Post
    They most likely can not break GPG RSA with current computing power in any time not measured in years - but, of course, computing power increases quickly and we will see quantum computers in 20 years, probably less.

    No matter. They can get you to divulge your password with some hmmmm, hmmm, gentle persuasion.
    even without persuasion, I still doubt they can't break any publicly available encryption.
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    Another example of big brother intruding into our lives because they feel like they have a right to and are entitled to accordingly. Privacy in today's terms is becoming an illusion. Have you ever thought about how often you are on camera whenever you are in public? It will probably be unnerving if you truly knew how often you are on survelliance. Chances are you are on camera via the camera in the parking lot at work, when you pick your kids up at school, when you're with your wife at the mall, when you're ordering a Beef N' Cheddar at Arby's and when you're at the football game with your son. We are recorded more and more as time progresses. Staying home or becoming a hermit that refrains from modern communications is going to be the only way to stay off of the grid. Smitty talked about outdated communication like the telephone being more secure but an even older method is more secure - note passed by currier is even more secure (like the pony express) - its why Bin Laden used it and did so rather successfully I might add.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    I'm amused that communication by land-line telephone used to be about the least secure means of communication is now so old-fashioned it's seemingly among the most secure! No digital records of content routinely kept... someone has to be actively 'listening' in order to capture the conversation.
    If I want a communication to be secure it is going to be old school. Hand written pen on paper. One time pads are a centuries old concept and just as secure today. If you don't mind taking the time and doing it right they are just about perfect.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    If I want a communication to be secure it is going to be old school. Hand written pen on paper. One time pads are a centuries old concept and just as secure today. If you don't mind taking the time and doing it right they are just about perfect.
    What communications do you do that you feel the need to encrypt a handwritten message? Ya know you can send it registered mail. The military does it that way. (authorized to do it that way)

    SECRET material may be transmitted by U.S. Postal Service registered mail or express mail within and between the United States and its territories. However, the "Waiver of Signature and Indemnity" block on the Express Mail Label 11-B may not be executed, and the use of external (street side) express mail collection boxes is prohibited. SECRET material may be sent through U.S. Postal Service registered mail through Army, Navy, or Air Force Postal Service facilities outside the United States, provided that the information does not at any time pass out of U.S. citizen control and does not pass through a foreign postal system or any foreign inspection. Federal Express may also be used for SECRET material for urgent, overnight delivery only, but contractors must receive approval from their government contracting authority to use this method.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Slightly OT but relevant, why in the world do communications companies keep logs
    and keep copies of emails, tweats, voice mails, text message content?

    It has to cost money to do so, in the form of memory and employees to administer things.
    Wouldn't it be better for them, and almost all of us,
    if these things were kept only until they were downloaded??

    What benefit does an ISP get from retaining these things after
    the recipient has deleted the item from his in-box? Why does ATT (for example, retain deleted SMS
    messages? I don't get it.

    I can see keeping logs for a short period, a few days or a few weeks, for real emergency LEO needs. But
    after that, I don't get it.
    So it can come back to haunt you someday if you run for office. Just like the heinous act of driving on vacation and tying the dog kennel on top of your car. How long was THAT information saved somewhere?
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    I read in another post that Leahy now doesn't support his own idea! "After public criticism of proposal that lets government agencies warrantlessly access Amricans' e-mail. Sen. Patrick Leahy says he will "not support" such an idea at next week's vote"
    Jeanlouise and Hopyard like this.

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    I know that one of the reasons for this is to intercept terrorists threats and security issues. However, we seem to be giving up a lot of privacy. There are cameras everywhere and that's annoying as all get out, but they are recorded a lot of crime that has led directly to the BGs being caught.
    There is an upside and downside to everything. If all this is used responsibly it's a good thing. If it's used to control law abiding citizens, it's a bad thing.

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    Senate bill rewrite lets feds read your e-mail without warrants

    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    What communications do you do that you feel the need to encrypt a handwritten message?
    This is one of the arguments against private communications. Unfortunately, I think it amounts to the proverbial , "if you have nothing to hide" argument. It also misses the point in that communications should be private by default. It is the same reason you put your mail in an envelope and not a post card. It should require special action and oversight to attempt to violate that privacy, but it doesn't. The fact that techniques have been developed such that the "authorities" can't access communications and that many average citizens feel the need to use them says much about the problem. As 'they' continue to tighten their grip, more sand will fall through their fingers until their hand is empty.

    There is an expression that I remember from Star Trek, I think it is a quote from Capt Picard, "that the wisdom to use a technology properly develops long after the technology."
    @jeanlouise: at what point does it get to where one has to become a happy automaton in public because you will automatically be charged and convicted of offenses? For example red light cameras, which in many places are a 'non record' (right) fine because it violates constitutional legal requirements?

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    They always could/did. This would just decriminalize the unlawful/unwarranted act.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noway2 View Post
    This is one of the arguments against private communications. Unfortunately, I think it amounts to the proverbial , "if you have nothing to hide" argument. It also misses the point in that communications should be private by default. It is the same reason you put your mail in an envelope and not a post card. It should require special action and oversight to attempt to violate that privacy, but it doesn't. The fact that techniques have been developed such that the "authorities" can't access communications and that many average citizens feel the need to use them says much about the problem. As 'they' continue to tighten their grip, more sand will fall through their fingers until their hand is empty.

    There is an expression that I remember from Star Trek, I think it is a quote from Capt Picard, "that the wisdom to use a technology properly develops long after the technology."
    @jeanlouise: at what point does it get to where one has to become a happy automaton in public because you will automatically be charged and convicted of offenses? For example red light cameras, which in many places are a 'non record' (right) fine because it violates constitutional legal requirements?
    That was rather a long reply to something I was not looking for. I was not trying to equate privacy with anything. I don't care if someone is sharing a cookie recipe or doing financial transactions. Nobody should see it but the recipient unless there is a warrant.

    I was just curious why some would think you need to do one time pads when you can do something as simple as registered mail.

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    Maybe they should rename this bill the Revitalization of Ma Bell & USPS Act of 2012.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mulle46 View Post
    i seriously doubt there are publicly available encryption standards that the NSA can't break. I always act as if anything I do on the net, can be read by anyone at anytime.
    Actually they cannot break the one time cypher. I read about a program that uses that method now for email.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeanlouise View Post
    I know that one of the reasons for this is to intercept terrorists threats and security issues. However, we seem to be giving up a lot of privacy. There are cameras everywhere and that's annoying as all get out, but they are recorded a lot of crime that has led directly to the BGs being caught.
    There is an upside and downside to everything. If all this is used responsibly it's a good thing. If it's used to control law abiding citizens, it's a bad thing.

    It's a strange world we live in...
    Unfortunately, as history has repeatedly shown us, governments are a corrupting power as they grow. So what we may one day think of as innocuous and for the better good, will turn to corrupted power and used against ordinary citizens that may disagree with the powers that be. Power corrupts completely. This need to be stopped now or it's guaranteed to be out of control sooner than later.

    And to the corrupt power, we have created our own ruling class in Washington and the states. They are there to get rich on the tax payer dime. We need three simple steps 1. Term limits that limit the person to two terms. 2. After those two terms they may NEVER run for any elected position or be appointed to any position in any capacity, state local or federal, for ever. And lastly, they may never work for any firm that lobbies directly or indirectly the local, federal or state government or associated organizations.

    Of course the reality is is well NEVER happen since the the ruling class would have to vote on it and against themselves.

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