Store Clerked warned robber...I have a gun!

This is a discussion on Store Clerked warned robber...I have a gun! within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by Lindy1933 Apparently the BG had a gun in his hand and the clerk drew and shot the BG. The clerk of course ...

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Thread: Store Clerked warned robber...I have a gun!

  1. #16
    Member Array ZacMan1987's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lindy1933 View Post
    Apparently the BG had a gun in his hand and the clerk drew and shot the BG. The clerk of course did the right thing but it should be noted that he was well practiced to get the shot off before the BG got his shot. This takes proficiency and big brass balls. Congratulations store clerk, whoever you are.
    And I'm curious to know where exactly it said in the article that your assumptions about the BG are supported? You made at least 3:

    1. The BG was fully capable of processing the situation and responding to it, keeping in mind that he's an addict.
    2. The BG was fully prepared to shoot and kill somebody to get what he wanted.
    3. The BG's gun was fully operational and prepared for action.

    I'm not disagreeing that training and practice are important, but don't make up parts of the story that aren't explained in any detail and insert them because you want to make a point.

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  3. #17
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    I agree that no warning needed to be given, but nice 'threat stop' on the part of the clerk.

    This dirtbag died with his gun in hand......never to rob again!
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  4. #18
    VIP Member Array zonker1986's Avatar
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    point a gun at me and prepare for incoming fire......and I fully intend to "take things into my own hands" if it ever does happen to me.
    What kind of Police Department makes ridiculous statements like that?? Obviously one run by those without a pair for fear the PC boogy man will get them.
    Kimbers are the guns you show your friends....Glocks are the ones you show your enemies.

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    Member Array nomadrider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ep1953 View Post
    "When you have to shoot, shoot! Don't talk." ..... Tuco
    Now that is funny.
    But I thought his name was two coats, but then again my hearing sucks

  6. #20
    Member Array norb5150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zonker1986 View Post
    point a gun at me and prepare for incoming fire......and I fully intend to "take things into my own hands" if it ever does happen to me.
    What kind of Police Department makes ridiculous statements like that?? Obviously one run by those without a pair for fear the PC boogy man will get them.
    look up erie police officer on you tube. The officers around here are dead set on not making waves. After a gun related homicide/shooting a few years ago (2009) to be exact, the EPD caught a whole " load of flak from the public and media for comments an off duty officer made and happened to be caught on videos.

  7. #21
    Member Array d2jlking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZacMan1987 View Post
    And I'm curious to know where exactly it said in the article that your assumptions about the BG are supported? You made at least 3:

    1. The BG was fully capable of processing the situation and responding to it, keeping in mind that he's an addict.
    2. The BG was fully prepared to shoot and kill somebody to get what he wanted.
    3. The BG's gun was fully operational and prepared for action.


    I'm not disagreeing that training and practice are important, but don't make up parts of the story that aren't explained in any detail and insert them because you want to make a point.
    HUH!?! Bad Guy brandishes gun, demands money. Clerk shoots bad guy. Your listed "assumptions" do NOT matter. He had a gun, he threatened violence. You would make the assumptions that his gun wasnt operational? That he wasn't prepared to shoot? That may leave the clerk dead, instead of the bad guy. And who cares what he was able to process. Or what drugs he's addicted to.

  8. #22
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    From the article, police Capt. Michael Tesore: "We are not encouraging people, naturally, to carry guns and get gun permits and take matters into their own hands," Tesore said.
    A better statement would have been: "At this time we have no information to share." IMO not only should the shooter not talk to the press, the police should not either. We all know that regardless of what is actually said, the press will only print what they want heard.
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  9. #23
    Member Array ZacMan1987's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by d2jlking View Post
    HUH!?! Bad Guy brandishes gun, demands money. Clerk shoots bad guy. Your listed "assumptions" do NOT matter. He had a gun, he threatened violence. You would make the assumptions that his gun wasnt operational? That he wasn't prepared to shoot? That may leave the clerk dead, instead of the bad guy. And who cares what he was able to process. Or what drugs he's addicted to.
    Poster I originally replied to said something to the effect of
    "He has clearly trained a lot to be able to draw and shoot before the BG could get a shot off."

    If it were me, I would have dropped the BG too.

    HOWEVER

    To say that his hours and hours of training caused him to be able to draw and kill this clown before said clown could shoot makes lots of assumptions about the situation that are in no way supported by the actual facts as reported in the article.

    Maybe his lightning quick draw saved him. Maybe it didn't.

    The intent of my original post was simply to say "don't distort the facts."

    Do you think I am taking up for the BG or something? If that's the case, read more carefully.

    I think that the clerk was 100% justified in his use of deadly force and I think that one more scumbag who might have eventually killed somebody is off the street.

    However, I don't think that this story means that I need to sign up for the next Quickdraw McGraw's Tacticool Academy To Reduce Your DrawTime To 0.000001 Seconds Or Less.
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  10. #24
    Member Array d2jlking's Avatar
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    Store Clerked warned robber...I have a gun!

    Tacticool. Hahahahaha thats funny!!!! Yep i misread your intentions. My bad. As you were.
    "What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
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  11. #25
    Senior Member Array Bubbiesdad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZacMan1987 View Post
    And I'm curious to know where exactly it said in the article that your assumptions about the BG are supported? You made at least 3:

    1. The BG was fully capable of processing the situation and responding to it, keeping in mind that he's an addict.
    2. The BG was fully prepared to shoot and kill somebody to get what he wanted.
    3. The BG's gun was fully operational and prepared for action.

    I'm not disagreeing that training and practice are important, but don't make up parts of the story that aren't explained in any detail and insert them because you want to make a point.
    Don't make up things because you want to make a point.

    1. The clerk has no way of knowing that the BG is an addict, or his ability to process the situation. He must assume the BG is going to shoot, he has a gun.
    2.The clerk must assume that the bad guy is prepared to shoot and kill him, he has a gun.
    3.The clerk doesn't need to have to question the BG on his gun maintenance, he must assume that since the bad guy has it, and is using it for a robbery, it works.

    Or is he supposed to wait until he gets shot?
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  12. #26
    Member Array ZacMan1987's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbiesdad View Post
    Don't make up things because you want to make a point.

    1. The clerk has no way of knowing that the BG is an addict, or his ability to process the situation. He must assume the BG is going to shoot, he has a gun.
    2.The clerk must assume that the bad guy is prepared to shoot and kill him, he has a gun.
    3.The clerk doesn't need to have to question the BG on his gun maintenance, he must assume that since the bad guy has it, and is using it for a robbery, it works.

    Or is he supposed to wait until he gets shot?
    Jesus, Mary, and Joseph does anybody on here actually read and critically evaluate anymore?

    My point was NOT that the clerk shouldn't have shot him!

    The person I originally replied to said something to the effect of:

    "The clerk must have had lots of training in order to draw and get a shot off before the BG shot him."

    That statement assumes several things about the BG that are NEVER explicitly stated ANYWHERE in the article.

    The clerk was 100% justified in shooting the dirtbag precisely when he did. No question.

    However, there is NO WAY to know how much he trained or what factors contributed to his successful defense of his life.

    If you had bothered to read the thread, you would see that I just explained this to somebody else who made the exact same misinterpretation as you.

    My point is don't spout off advocating this training method or that carry method or this gun or that ammo when there is nothing in the article to support what you are saying. Maybe it was Quickdraw McGraw's Tacticool Holster Clearing Ninja Warrior 3 Week Super Elite Marathon Training Extravaganza that saved him. From the details actually provided in that article, we'll never know.

    Reading: let's bring it back.

  13. #27
    Senior Member Array Bubbiesdad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lindy1933 View Post
    Apparently the BG had a gun in his hand and the clerk drew and shot the BG. The clerk of course did the right thing but it should be noted that he was well practiced to get the shot off before the BG got his shot. This takes proficiency and big brass balls. Congratulations store clerk, whoever you are.
    Quote Originally Posted by ZacMan1987 View Post
    And I'm curious to know where exactly it said in the article that your assumptions about the BG are supported? You made at least 3:

    1. The BG was fully capable of processing the situation and responding to it, keeping in mind that he's an addict.
    2. The BG was fully prepared to shoot and kill somebody to get what he wanted.
    3. The BG's gun was fully operational and prepared for action.

    I'm not disagreeing that training and practice are important, but don't make up parts of the story that aren't explained in any detail and insert them because you want to make a point.
    Where did Lindy make his assumptions you attributed to him?
    Which lines did you read between?
    Always remember that others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.
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    Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.
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  14. #28
    Member Array ZacMan1987's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbiesdad View Post
    Where did Lindy make his assumptions you attributed to him?
    Which lines did you read between?
    Lindy said:
    The clerk was well practiced to get his shot off before the BG. That takes proficiency and big brass ones.

    Implying that it was trained proficiency and preparedness which saved his life.

    Lindy's statements assume that the BG, being an addict, had no degraded reaction time. Maybe he did. Maybe he didn't.
    Lindy's statement assumes that the BG was going to shoot. Maybe he was. Maybe he wasn't.
    Lindy's statement assumes that the BG, an addict, had a fully loaded and functional firearm. Maybe he didn't.

    The thrust of Lindy's statement to me is that training and presence of mind saved his life. Specifically, training that allowed the clerk to draw and get a shot off faster than the BG could.

    However, there is nothing in the article to support that claim.
    Who knows what allowed the clerk to get the upper hand?
    Maybe the BG got distracted. Maybe the BG tried to fire and his gun went click. Nobody knows. To say that proficiency and presence of mind were the deciding factors is a dangerous assumption to make. Maybe the clerk hadn't fired his gun since his CC class.

    Not only that, you completely ignored the fact that I have already made this clarification once.

    The clerk acted perfectly, in a completely justified manner, and he has his life to show for it.
    As to what was the deciding factor, nobody knows.

    All I have ever said on the subject is don't make assumptions.
    Don't assume that this clerk trained himself into a finely honed state where he could draw and fire before this BG could squeeze the trigger.
    Assumptions have a funny way of coming back to bite those who make them.

  15. #29
    Member Array minimalbrat's Avatar
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    Thank heavens the clerk is safe. We really have no idea why he was able to shoot the bad guy before the bad guy could get a shot off. Maybe the clerk was just that good. Maybe the bad guy was in no real shape to shoot anyone or at least his reaction time was way off because he was high or needed a fix. I am glad the good guy is alive and the bad guy can't try to hurt anyone else.
    Our House Is Protected By The Good Lord And A gun. You Might Meet Both Of Them If You Show Up Inside My House Uninvited.

  16. #30
    Senior Member Array Bubbiesdad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZacMan1987 View Post
    Lindy said:
    The clerk was well practiced to get his shot off before the BG. That takes proficiency and big brass ones.

    Implying that it was trained proficiency and preparedness which saved his life.

    Lindy's statements assume that the BG, being an addict, had no degraded reaction time. Maybe he did. Maybe he didn't.
    Lindy's statement assumes that the BG was going to shoot. Maybe he was. Maybe he wasn't.
    Lindy's statement assumes that the BG, an addict, had a fully loaded and functional firearm. Maybe he didn't.

    The thrust of Lindy's statement to me is that training and presence of mind saved his life. Specifically, training that allowed the clerk to draw and get a shot off faster than the BG could.

    However, there is nothing in the article to support that claim.
    Who knows what allowed the clerk to get the upper hand?
    Maybe the BG got distracted. Maybe the BG tried to fire and his gun went click. Nobody knows. To say that proficiency and presence of mind were the deciding factors is a dangerous assumption to make. Maybe the clerk hadn't fired his gun since his CC class.

    Not only that, you completely ignored the fact that I have already made this clarification once.

    The clerk acted perfectly, in a completely justified manner, and he has his life to show for it.
    As to what was the deciding factor, nobody knows.

    All I have ever said on the subject is don't make assumptions.
    Don't assume that this clerk trained himself into a finely honed state where he could draw and fire before this BG could squeeze the trigger.
    Assumptions have a funny way of coming back to bite those who make them.

    He was obviously trained to not stand there and wait to get shot. Presence of mind most definitely played a factor. He saw his chance, and he took it.
    Maybe the BG was distracted, maybe the clerk caused him to get distracted.
    Always remember that others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.
    Richard M Nixon
    Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.
    Jeff Cooper

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