Real scenario from the news: License holder pulls gun during Black Friday melee

[Hopyard]

Saw this on our news today.

Man Pulls Gun on Rowdy Line-cutting Shopper

Basic story, someone cut in line, acted rowdy, and punched a license holder who then
pulled a gun. The license holder was not arrested.

I tend to disagree with that decision to not arrest. 1) Insufficient threat to the license holder,
2) Too much hazard to innocents nearby. 3) Perfect situation for pepper or better yet, some
deep self-control and retreat. 4) Being on line for a Black Friday sale violates the rules of stupid.

Thoughts from the gallery please.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[NCMedic8617]

Stupid Places + Stupid Things x Stupid Times + Stupid People = Stupid Prizes.


Sent from this... Using that...

[ccw9mm]

... a man rushed into the store when it opened Thursday night to get to the front of a line, started arguing with people and tried cutting in front of them.

One man who got punched pulled a gun ...

Carey says the man with the gun had a permit to carry the weapon and isn't being charged with a crime.

Depends on the situation. If the idiot was acting aggressively enough where his combination of arguing, shoving and punching amounted to what people reasonably construed as threats to their persons, I can see how someone might decide that point had been reached and opted to call and end to the harm to others. Depends what was said, how many people were attacked, and how rough the punching/physicality was. That being said ...

But, if it all occurred merely as reported in that one article, that it wasn't any worse than implied, then IMO it's hard to see how "arguing" and being "punched" constitutes a dire threat sufficient to pull out a deadly weapon.

I'm a bit surprised there was no arrest of the parties involved, both the one committing physical assault and the one pulling the gun.

[ghost tracker]

God bless Texas. Things got settled with no lawyers, judge or jury required. Just a level-headed LEO with some on-the-scene discretion. Some bully misbehaved, he got called-out, he punched someone, he saw a muzzle, he changed his mind, everybody went home. Sounds like a happy ending to me.

[oldnfat]

And they all lived happily ever after in the great state of Texas.

[OldVet]

I don't know. You can't be sure that first punch won't be followed by a second, then a third, a fourth, etc. You assault me, I will fight back with whatever it takes.

Moral of the story: Don't punch people; they may be armed.

[goldshellback]

I tend to disagree with that decision to not arrest. 1) Insufficient threat to the license holder,
2) Too much hazard to innocents nearby. 3) Perfect situation for pepper or better yet, some
deep self-control and retreat. 4) Being on line for a Black Friday sale violates the rules of stupid.

Thoughts from the gallery please.

Very stupid. Not sure of the brandishing laws in Texas and the article dosn't give any real details...... I'm assuming the police did not arrest the 'gun-puller' because there was 'other' information excluded from the press.... i.e., witness statements, threats made by the roudy shopper, etc.

I agree with the "stay home OR show extreem self-control and back out of a bad situation". Leave the gun holstered.

[mkh]

Hard to tell from the article if he was justified.

But the LEOs seemed to have thought he was justified and that is good enough for me. Case closed.

[glockman10mm]

Not judging this one, cause I wasnt there. But, I have seen a punch result in the death of someone. But this is a perfect case for pepper spray.

[Thunder71]

One punch can kill.


Tapatalk - Helping people post from bathrooms since 2009.

[TOF]

The perp is lucky the victim showed enough self control to not pull the trigger immediately after drawing. If someone is close enough to strike you in the face and does they are life threatening and should be stopped by whatever means are at your disposal. Waiting until you are incapacitated is not a very good plan.

[oneshot]

He was assaulted with what may have proceeded to be an agressive attack from an animal with no respect for others, and who knows what may have transpired, had he not drawn.
I won't judge, same as I'm sittin the Florida shooting out until a trial comes around.
I don't know all the facts.

[linuss]

In Texas, per the CHL statutes, threatening with a deadly weapon is not considered using deadly force. It's considered verbal force.

And per the law, the threat of force is justified when the use of force is justified, meaning if someone hits you, you can either hit them back or say "Ill hit you back" since physical force is allowed, so is threatening the force.



Therefore going off the article, the CHL guy was 100% legally right.

[pipedream]

Saw this on our news today.

Man Pulls Gun on Rowdy Line-cutting Shopper

Thoughts from the gallery please.

He drew his gun to defend himself after being punched in the face. He didn't "pull a gun on a rowdy line-cutting shopper."

We don't know if the fellow getting punched wasn't 70 and the guy punching was 25 and 6'2".

[Bark'n]

But, if it all occurred merely as reported in that one article, that it wasn't any worse than implied, then IMO it's hard to see how "arguing" and being "punched" constitutes a dire threat sufficient to pull out a deadly weapon.

I'm not going to comment other than to say that I see countless people here in this forum post that they would shoot before they let anyone punch them even once in the face. Usually expressing the analogy "but I could have been killed if he hit me."

Personally, I don't believe a jury would buy that excuse, but a lot of folks seem to stick with that being enough to keep them out of jail.

We all know there are anecdotal cases of someone dying from being punched one time in the head. Most people can cite at least one case they know about. Although frequently the actual facts can be mischaracterized because the story is second, third, or fourth hand passed down over generations by the great grandchildren of weird uncle Fudd who once served time in prison with the offender.

But what the jury quickly finds out in reality that for every one person who tragically gets killed from one punch hits, there are literally hundreds of thousands of other people who get the crap stomped out of them without getting killed or having any serious lasting effects. And that changes how things get viewed when using the "reasonable man standard." The reasonable standard basis of weighing innocence or guilt does not consider a "freak occurrence" to be the norm. And they are presented with statistics which shows the guy who dies from a single punch to the head, falls more in the category of "freak occurrences."

All I can say is for me, the incident in this post probably wouldn't cross the threshold of drawing a gun... yet. But I'd be ready to if the aggressor thought he was going to continue the assault.