Bad: License holder opens up on SUV of teens in FL

This is a discussion on Bad: License holder opens up on SUV of teens in FL within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by Jollymann Yeah, I get your point with this. It looks wierd. He didn't want to stay in that county. He wanted to ...

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Thread: Bad: License holder opens up on SUV of teens in FL

  1. #76
    Distinguished Member Array Toorop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jollymann View Post
    Yeah, I get your point with this. It looks wierd. He didn't want to stay in that county. He wanted to get home.
    More like this man wanted to murder black children. I am willing to bet this guy was overjoyed at the thought of it. I hope he meets some new friends in prison.

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  3. #77
    Member Array Moops's Avatar
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    Bad: License holder opens up on SUV of teens in FL

    This happened just up the road from where I live. It is not a ghetto, not a bad part of town at all (one of the nicer private golf course/gated communities abuts this gas station). I regularly jog by there late at night and don't feel the need to carry.

    The local news reported that the defendant was here attending his son's wedding. Just left the reception prior to the incident. The victim was in his senior year of high school, hoping to join the Marine Corps. His mother was interviewed saying she hopes this doesn't become as divisive as the Trayvon Martin hubbub.

    I was withholding judgement until I found out he went home and was arrested in Brevard. I'd bet next month's paycheck he was drunk and insulted by those "punk black kids."
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  4. #78
    Ex Member Array Ogien's Avatar
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    I don't get why anyone is bringing race into this discussion. It is completely irrelevant to the situation. It may prove to be relevant at trial because the evidence may show that Michael Dunn just wanted to kill "some blacks" but it is irrelevant in the grander scheme of things.
    Doesn't matter if Dunn was black or white, the fact remains that he did a horrible thing. It doesn't matter if the teens in the Durango were black or white as they were all victimized and one was murdered in cold blood. I think we, in the gun owner community, should be speaking out against anyone who irresponsibly shoots up a car full of kids and then flees the county.
    A crime is a crime is a crime and it doesn't matter one bit if the perpetrator was black or white, the fact remains that a 17 year old kid is dead before he even had a chance to live his life or finish High School or join the Marines.

    The fact remains that the family of the murdered kid have been forever changed by this shooting.

    The fact remains that the family of Michael Dunn have been forever changed by this shooting.

    The fact remains that a man shot up a car full of people (forget about race) and should be held accountable for his actions.

    This story should resonate in this community, especially with some of the newer gun owners, as it is a reminder that if you carry a gun you have to be extremely careful of your actions and that you have a massive responsibility to the public at large.

    This story, besides how horrible it is that a child lost his life, should resonate with this community and serve as a reminder that gun ownership and OC or CC is NOT a joke. We are armed civilians and we had all better remember that our actions have grave consequences, that our actions don't only effect us but lots of other people and their families too.

    Yes, I am very much for the Second Amendment as all of you are too but we have to remember that we are not only carrying a self defense tool, we are accepting that we can end the life of just about any person we come in contact with if we don't take our responsibilities very seriously.

    This is not a joke, this is not about race, this is not about the 2A. This is about right and wrong. Attempting to somehow shift blame away from the person at fault is not what we should be doing. Most importantly this man killed an unarmed kid (I want to make it clear that this is the most important aspect of this case) but secondly, Michael Dunn did a great disservice to each and every one of us because this is the type of case that is just going to cast all of us in a very bad light and might even result in new gun laws. Whether we like it or not, we will get lumped in with people like Michael Dunn and we will all be viewed as suspect for being gun owners and for carrying our firearms. We should be condemning this murderer for the crime he committed but we should also be condemning this murderer to get out in front of the news story and to show that not everyone who carries a firearm is a dangerous lunatic, that we are not all cut from the same cloth and that most of us are responsible people.
    dben002, msgt/ret, Lish and 4 others like this.

  5. #79
    VIP Member Array Sig 210's Avatar
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    So, the defendant left the scene. Implies he "ran" and doesn't paint anything in a good light
    Yep, the idiot ran a long ways to. After killing the kid he drove home to Brevard county, about 160 miles from the shooting.

    Man charged with killing teen in Jacksonville over loud music | StAugustine.com

    The 45-year-old Dunn was arrested at his Brevard County home, about 160 miles away, along Florida’s Space Coast. He told detectives he had been in the process of turning himself in to a neighbor, who is in law enforcement. Initially booked into the Brevard County Jail and pleading not guilty to the charges, Dunn was extradited to Jacksonville on Tuesday.

  6. #80
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    Well said Ogien, this is exactly the type of news story the brady bunch, vpc, the so-called media and every anti self defense group begs for. They will try to keep it as a top story as to why there must be even more restrictions enacted.
    When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
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  7. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ogien View Post
    I don't get why anyone is bringing race into this discussion. It is completely irrelevant to the situation.
    Seeing as (we) weren't there, don't know what exchange of words took place (and I doubt it was polite by any terms), it hard to say race was or wasn't "relevant" in this situation.I abstain on that matter, but I can understand where some may throw out the race card.
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    Seeing as (we) weren't there, don't know what exchange of words took place (and I doubt it was polite by any terms), it hard to say race was or wasn't "relevant" in this situation.I abstain on that matter, but I can understand where some may throw out the race card.
    Yup.

    He/they were of a certain appearance. They were multiple, he was one. They (and possibly he as well) were flinging verbal volleys. Possibly prejudices/biases came into play, as enhancers in the situation. Possibly a gun was seen, inside the "targeted" car, though none was subsequently found. The shooter high-tailed it 100+ miles away, failing to contact police, though he claims it was for reasons of fear over his safety in the immediate area. Lots of major and minor factors were likely at play. No matter how you slice it, though, poor choices were made, and the "piper" is going to demand "payment."
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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  9. #83
    Member Array steffen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msgt/ret View Post
    Well said Ogien, this is exactly the type of news story the brady bunch, vpc, the so-called media and every anti self defense group begs for. They will try to keep it as a top story as to why there must be even more restrictions enacted.
    The problem is that they should see a story like this and understand that their restrictions don't work... Instead, they interpret the opposite.

  10. #84
    Ex Member Array Ogien's Avatar
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    I think it wouldn't be a bad idea if we all brainstormed and set up a petition condemning murder and irresponsible gun violence. The petition wouldn't be binding or anything but it would be one hell of a symbolic statement.

    "An online Gun enthusiasts community has started a petition condemning the actions of Michael Dunn and anyone else who uses a firearm irresponsibly or to just commit murder." "At last count the petition already had close to a thousand signatures by 3 O'clock this afternoon."

    I totally heard that in a local news anchors voice and it's exactly the type of thing we should be doing to get in front of this story and prove that we are NOT like that irresponsible a-hole who murdered a kid and then made a run for it.

    I very strongly believe that it is up to us and our community to make the effort to show that we are nothing like Michael Dunn and that we believe that if he is found guilty of murder than the judge should throw the book at him. The perception that MANY people have of us is that we're reckless people who twirl their handguns as though living in the "Old West" and that we're just itching to shoot someone. We have the ability to change that perception and this case is the catalyst to make people do a double take about what a gun owner truly is.
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  11. #85
    Member Array BeefyG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ogien View Post
    I think it wouldn't be a bad idea if we all brainstormed and set up a petition condemning murder and irresponsible gun violence. The petition wouldn't be binding or anything but it would be one hell of a symbolic statement.

    "An online Gun enthusiasts community has started a petition condemning the actions of Michael Dunn and anyone else who uses a firearm irresponsibly or to just commit murder." "At last count the petition already had close to a thousand signatures by 3 O'clock this afternoon."

    I totally heard that in a local news anchors voice and it's exactly the type of thing we should be doing to get in front of this story and prove that we are NOT like that irresponsible a-hole who murdered a kid and then made a run for it.

    I very strongly believe that it is up to us and our community to make the effort to show that we are nothing like Michael Dunn and that we believe that if he is found guilty of murder than the judge should throw the book at him. The perception that MANY people have of us is that we're reckless people who twirl their handguns as though living in the "Old West" and that we're just itching to shoot someone. We have the ability to change that perception and this case is the catalyst to make people do a double take about what a gun owner truly is.
    The problem with this is it is a lynch mob type of move done without full disclosure of all the facts. If you want to do a petition, leave specifics out of it in my opinion. A petition or a statement of belief about firearm responsibility is fine with me.

    By all appearances he looks guilty as heck but he is legally guaranteed due process. Let the courts take care of it. Its not our right or responsibility to condemn him. Especially with limited information. *edit* I mean condemn him in an offical or public way, not expressing opinion on the forum.
    Last edited by BeefyG; December 3rd, 2012 at 11:55 AM. Reason: Just wanted to clarify

  12. #86
    Member Array Moops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ogien View Post
    I think it wouldn't be a bad idea if we all brainstormed and set up a petition condemning murder and irresponsible gun violence. The petition wouldn't be binding or anything but it would be one hell of a symbolic statement.

    "An online Gun enthusiasts community has started a petition condemning the actions of Michael Dunn and anyone else who uses a firearm irresponsibly or to just commit murder." "At last count the petition already had close to a thousand signatures by 3 O'clock this afternoon."

    I totally heard that in a local news anchors voice and it's exactly the type of thing we should be doing to get in front of this story and prove that we are NOT like that irresponsible a-hole who murdered a kid and then made a run for it.

    I very strongly believe that it is up to us and our community to make the effort to show that we are nothing like Michael Dunn and that we believe that if he is found guilty of murder than the judge should throw the book at him. The perception that MANY people have of us is that we're reckless people who twirl their handguns as though living in the "Old West" and that we're just itching to shoot someone. We have the ability to change that perception and this case is the catalyst to make people do a double take about what a gun owner truly is.
    ^^^^^
    Great idea! I'd sign it.

    Quote Originally Posted by BeefyG View Post
    The problem with this is it is a lynch mob type of move done without full disclosure of all the facts. If you want to do a petition, leave specifics out of it in my opinion. A petition or a statement of belief about firearm responsibility is fine with me.

    By all appearances he looks guilty as heck but he is legally guaranteed due process. Let the courts take care of it. Its not our right or responsibility to condemn him. Especially with limited information. *edit* I mean condemn him in an offical or public way, not expressing opinion on the forum.
    It isn't our responsibility to condemn him, sure, but it is certainly our right to speak up against violence and voice our opinion. You better believe that there are people/groups who will use this incident in a very specific way to advance the goal of limiting gun freedoms. It behooves those of us on this side of the issue to counter those attempts.
    "Your mind is the weapon, all the rest are just tools." --gasmitty

  13. #87
    Ex Member Array Ogien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeefyG View Post
    The problem with this is it is a lynch mob type of move done without full disclosure of all the facts. If you want to do a petition, leave specifics out of it in my opinion. A petition or a statement of belief about firearm responsibility is fine with me.

    By all appearances he looks guilty as heck but he is legally guaranteed due process. Let the courts take care of it. Its not our right or responsibility to condemn him. Especially with limited information. *edit* I mean condemn him in an offical or public way, not expressing opinion on the forum.
    Of course you are right about innocent until proven guilty and I agree with you there. The type of petition I had in mind would be directed towards the District Attorney (as well as leaking it to the press) where we, responsible and law abiding gun owners, are requesting that the DA leave no stone unturned because to allow someone to POTENTIALLY get away with murder is something our group, and we as individuals, find absolutely disgusting. If he's innocent than he's innocent but our letter or petition would ask the DA to make sure one way or the other that this guy is either innocent or guilty. If he's guilty than we, as the gun owning community, want to see the maximum sentencing allowed under the law.

    That's not the finished language and I'd love to brainstorm with a couple of willing member from this forum so as to come up with the perfect (non-lynch mob) type of petition or letter or document of concern/intent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moops View Post
    ^^^^^
    Great idea! I'd sign it.

    It isn't our responsibility to condemn him, sure, but it is certainly our right to speak up against violence and voice our opinion. You better believe that there are people/groups who will use this incident in a very specific way to advance the goal of limiting gun freedoms. It behooves those of us on this side of the issue to counter those attempts.
    Moops, you also have just as valid a point about our community voicing it's opinion and making it crystal clear that we don't back someone up just because he carries a gun but rather that we stand on the side of the law with absolutely no exceptions.

    If you'd like to help me out on this then shoot me a PM and we can take this off board and come up with something that really resonates without sounding like we're some sort of lynch mob. I'll definitely see about putting pen to paper to see what I can come up with. I could certainly use your help and the help of any other members who feel like they would like to contribute.

    Before I start though, I'd just like to ask the members of this forum if they would be willing to digitally sign a non-bidnding petition of intent? Because if we're only going to end up with a grand total of 5 OC or CC gun owners signatures on the petition then it might not be worth doing. This would only work if a good number of folks from this forum and maybe even some neighboring forums were to sign the petition.

  14. #88
    Member Array tdrussell's Avatar
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    I would absolutely be willing to sign it.

  15. #89
    Member Array BeefyG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ogien View Post
    The type of petition I had in mind would be directed towards the District Attorney (as well as leaking it to the press) where we, responsible and law abiding gun owners, are requesting that the DA leave no stone unturned because to allow someone to POTENTIALLY get away with murder is something our group, and we as individuals, find absolutely disgusting. If he's innocent than he's innocent but our letter or petition would ask the DA to make sure one way or the other that this guy is either innocent or guilty. If he's guilty than we, as the gun owning community, want to see the maximum sentencing allowed under the law.
    This sounds a lot better. I totally agree with standing up for what is right and making clear our stance on the issue.

  16. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Yup.

    He/they were of a certain appearance. They were multiple, he was one. They (and possibly he as well) were flinging verbal volleys. Possibly prejudices/biases came into play, as enhancers in the situation. Possibly a gun was seen, inside the "targeted" car, though none was subsequently found. The shooter high-tailed it 100+ miles away, failing to contact police, though he claims it was for reasons of fear over his safety in the immediate area. Lots of major and minor factors were likely at play. No matter how you slice it, though, poor choices were made, and the "piper" is going to demand "payment."
    Really?.... Seriously?.... They were of a certain appearence?... Is that a factor contributing to justification of the use of deadly force? They played loud music that some people dont like? They stood up to some random guy making unjustified demands on them? How does any of this contribute to the use of deadly force?

    Different people are intimidated by different things... Probably my appearence would intimidate some people... and I will argue with anyone making unreasonable demands of me... Why is it bad when some people play the race card, but perfectly OK when others do it? This is about Justice... And for these very reasons Justice is blind. Race dont mean no never mind... Unless it is an element of a crime. We cant go about shooting people because we dont like their music, how they dress, the color of theis skin, or any other reason other than they pose an imediate threat to us or our's.
    wmhawth, msgt/ret, Lish and 2 others like this.

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