Teenager Shoots Woman Over a Cigarette - Page 3

Teenager Shoots Woman Over a Cigarette

This is a discussion on Teenager Shoots Woman Over a Cigarette within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by Cold Shot If they deserve to go to prison for life, they deserve the right to buy a pack of smokes. You ...

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Thread: Teenager Shoots Woman Over a Cigarette

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Shot View Post
    If they deserve to go to prison for life, they deserve the right to buy a pack of smokes.
    You have got to be kidding with that analogy. This is a far cry from "if they are old enough to fight and get drafted they are old enough to drink"

    I thought I have heard everything........till now
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  2. #32
    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Shot View Post
    I just disagree with the premise of sentencing a 13 year old to life with out parole, and I don't understand why they should be treated like adults in this particular instance...when they are not adults.

    They are scumbags, no doubt.
    At 13 and 14 years of age, if they already have a complete disregard for others lives then I do NOT want them out later. They knew what they were doing even if they didn't comprehend the concequences. I give these choirboys no quarter in that. That's just me.
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  3. #33
    Senior Member Array Cold Shot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    You have got to be kidding with that analogy. This is a far cry from "if they are old enough to fight and get drafted they are old enough to drink"

    I thought I have heard everything........till now
    Why should a child be treated like juvenile in every legal and social aspect, except the most serious situation he was ever involved in? You're just set in your hypocritical ways.

    I don't like the idea of sentencing children to death. Sue me.

  4. #34
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Shot View Post
    Why should a child be treated like juvenile in every legal and social aspect, except the most serious situation he was ever involved in? You're just set in your hypocritical ways.

    I don't like the idea of sentencing children to death. Sue me.
    First of all read the post I was replying to. It said
    If they deserve to go to prison for life, they deserve the right to buy a pack of smokes.
    You did not mention the death penalty in which I was responding to.

    Second: It is not hypocritical to state certain things and have options open. An adult gets different sentences depending on circumstances. A minor can also

    Third: Where on earth am I being a hyprocrit? From the analogy I posted? You don't even know how I feel on it. I just said your analogy was idiotic and made no sense.

    Fourth: If you feel the way you do I respect it...but try to come uyp with something logical next time.

    Fifth: I am not saying anything about you in case my terminiolgy is off. I am addressing your post and what I think of it.

    Sixth: I only feel in the most extreme circumstances a minor sould be treated as an adult

    Seventh: Time for my run
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    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

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  5. #35
    Member Array TheConcealer's Avatar
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    Wow, check this out... links to their facebook pages. Life in prison for them please.

    http://www.facebook.com/todavia.cleckley

    Shooter: http://www.facebook.com/marcus.velasquez.737
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  6. #36
    Senior Member Array Cold Shot's Avatar
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    1. What happens in a murder 1 situation? Life without parole or death penalty. I understand I added the death penalty thing later, but when people say "treat em like an adult," the death penalty is on the table.

    3/4. I think the whole thought of sentencing a 13 year old as an adult is hypocritical. Here's why...wait for it...he's not an adult. How is that idiotic? I know there is precedent for sentencing older teenagers as adults, but is there some sort of rule out there that says juveniles have the same rules as adults in murder cases? I don't think there is.

    6. I think the exact opposite could be true in some cases. Yeah, the 17 year old who's been gang bangin since middle school might deserve an adult's sentence. A child who is clearly mentally deranged might warrant special treatment. I'm talking somebody like the Michael Myers character from Halloween, i.e. psychopath. But what if this kid who killed the woman was just getting into the life? He might have grown up close to the street and was being manipulated by older kids or adults. I'm not saying there shouldn't be consequences, but it is possible that he could change, and maybe that warrants him being released in 15 years as opposed to never.

    Once again, the kid is 13.
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Shot View Post
    1. What happens in a murder 1 situation? Life without parole or death penalty. I understand I added the death penalty thing later, but when people say "treat em like an adult," the death penalty is on the table.

    3/4. I think the whole thought of sentencing a 13 year old as an adult is hypocritical. Here's why...wait for it...he's not an adult. How is that idiotic? I know there is precedent for sentencing older teenagers as adults, but is there some sort of rule out there that says juveniles have the same rules as adults in murder cases? I don't think there is.

    6. I think the exact opposite could be true in some cases. Yeah, the 17 year old who's been gang bangin since middle school might deserve an adult's sentence. A child who is clearly mentally deranged might warrant special treatment. I'm talking somebody like the Michael Myers character from Halloween, i.e. psychopath. But what if this kid who killed the woman was just getting into the life? He might have grown up close to the street and was being manipulated by older kids or adults. I'm not saying there shouldn't be consequences, but it is possible that he could change, and maybe that warrants him being released in 15 years as opposed to never.

    Once again, the kid is 13.
    So, I assume that you are A OK with him living in your neighborhood - on your street?
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  8. #38
    Senior Member Array mulle46's Avatar
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    Kids as young as three know the difference from right and wrong. Why wouldn't a teenager ?
    You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, "I have lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along." . . . You must do the thing you think you cannot do. Eleanor Roosevelt

  9. #39
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    That's how upset some people get when confronted with the thought of having a job.
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  10. #40
    Senior Member Array Cold Shot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksholder View Post
    So, I assume that you are A OK with him living in your neighborhood - on your street?
    Not particularly. That doesn't necessarily mean if he was paroled someday he should be denied an opportunity to live in a place he can afford.

    I could really care less what happens to him. A 13 year old is not an adult, however. Fact. Apparently that is idiotic.
    Last edited by OD*; December 12th, 2012 at 12:10 AM.

  11. #41
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    Regardless of whether they are of majority, which they are not, try them as Adults, and throw them in prison for life without parole. Preferred would be Capital Punishment, within a reasonable period of time, say six months.

  12. #42
    Distinguished Member Array chuckusaret's Avatar
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    Yes, two innocent teenagers, got PO'd because they were told to get a job. BS, I see dozens of them every day of the week, punks trying to prove themselves
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  13. #43
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    Re: Teenager Shoots Woman Over a Cigarette

    I'm thinking about parenting here and all I can see is a 900 pound gorilla sitting in the corner.

    ...
    The problem with the world is grown-ups behaving like unsupervised children.
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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Shot View Post
    Not particularly. That doesn't necessarily mean if he was paroled someday he should be denied an opportunity to live in a place he can afford.

    I could really care less what happens to him. A 13 year old is not an adult, however. Fact. Apparently that is idiotic.
    Here is the problem I see with your logic. Currently the law is more lenient toward those under 18. Teens know this and are schooled by gangs that they cannot/will not be punished significantly for performing even the most heinous acts. Therefore, we have taught those under 18 that they can act however they want to act and there are no, or limited consequences.

    Now, if we were to change that paradigm, we might find that the actions of teens would change. There will still be some, as in the adult population, who will choose a life of crime, but many may eschew the criminal life if there are actually consequences that they would prefer not to pay. I know, it is kind of a chicken and egg thing, but I am all for changing the expectations for punishment of teens where the fact pattern exhibits either gross disregard for the law or an apparent willingness to exploit the lesser penalties emposed on minors. This would not escalate the penalties for minors who do something stupid with bad result, but would escalate the penalty, in cases where there is clearly scienter or gross disregard for the law, to the penalty that adults would pay.

    In the case under discussion in this thread, it appears that the teens either were grossly disregarding the law or had, with forethought, set out to shoot someone. In either case, I think the adult penalties should apply. If the law abiding citizens of this country do not take it back from the criminal element, it will continue to become more and more dangerous. In my opinion, enough is enough. YMMV.
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  15. #45
    Senior Member Array Lish's Avatar
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    I was thinking the same thing about parenting, especially after I saw the pictures of the first kid's Facebook page. My 14 yr old has Facebook but rule 1 is I have his password and I log on as him every couple days to read through his stuff. He's currently on Facebook restriction for way way less than pictures like those. He's been off it for a month and is off until he shows a little maturity. He knows if you're a kid in my house there is no expectation of privacy.

    I give cigarettes to adults who ask rather than possibly deal with a confrontation. A couple of kids I would not have. But ths is beyond simply asking for a smoke. Ths is following someone home fom the store and harassing them. I agree with others, these guys seemed to be looking for an excuse to shoot someone. I sit here trying to come up with what I would have done in the situation. I don't typically mouth off to people, but at my own home I very well might. Either way,I completely disagree with blaming the victim.
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