Good-Folks getting better in these situations. Bad-Because they keep happening

Good-Folks getting better in these situations. Bad-Because they keep happening

This is a discussion on Good-Folks getting better in these situations. Bad-Because they keep happening within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; So, the reactions from the people at the mall was commendable, but sadly it's because these events are happening more frequently. And this was interesting... ...

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Thread: Good-Folks getting better in these situations. Bad-Because they keep happening

  1. #1
    Member Array iguanadon's Avatar
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    Good-Folks getting better in these situations. Bad-Because they keep happening

    So, the reactions from the people at the mall was commendable, but sadly it's because these events are happening more frequently.

    And this was interesting... Look forward to finding out more if in fact he was engaged.

    "Law officers said during a Wednesday press conference that they did not know whether any member of the public carrying a concealed weapon had counterattacked Roberts. But they said they are certain that Roberts died by his own hand after fleeing down a stairwell from the mall's upper level."


    Why more people didn't die in Clackamas mall shooting - CSMonitor.com
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    VIP Member Array pittypat21's Avatar
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    "Santa Claus could have been shot in the mall," said Penny Okamoto, executive director of Ceasefire Oregon, in an interview with the Portland Tribune. "If you're sick of this, you should call your legislators to tell them to fix the laws so that assault weapons don't end up in the hands of felons."
    The laws are already in place to prevent felons from obtaining weapons.

    Police said Roberts had no criminal record and had stolen the AR-15 from "someone he knew."
    The shooter wasn't a felon, and the weapon wasn't obtained legally anyway, so that is a stupid argument to try and make.

    Some people...
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pittypat21 View Post
    "Santa Claus could have been shot in the mall," said Penny Okamoto, executive director of Ceasefire Oregon, in an interview with the Portland Tribune. "If you're sick of this, you should call your legislators to tell them to fix the laws so that assault weapons don't end up in the hands of felons."
    The shooter wasn't a felon, and the weapon wasn't obtained legally anyway, so that is a stupid argument to try and make.
    Got to wonder, though, whether the gun(s) obtained by theft were locked up at the time, or just lying around the home unsecured and unwatched. I'm assuming the latter. If true, even if not true, it's situations like this that give anti-gunner groups (like Ceasefire Oregon) ammo it uses to try to gain traction on legislation.
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    VIP Member Array JoJoGunn's Avatar
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    The problem is the mentality of people these days. They want attention, fame, fortune and when they don't get what they feel entitled, they go off in a rage and do something like this. I see people that I suspect could go off on a rampage any second just by the way they look or act.

    They also may suffer from depression due to the stresses of our "modern" society. With so much pressure from the "world" it's little wonder we all don't want to do this from time to time. While I have never considered it, I understand the forces at work that compel people to want revenge for whatever slight they feel has made life miserable. The kid who shot the lady over not getting a cigarette and was "dissed" comes to mind.

    As for "additional" gun laws, our law books are clogged with them. We normal citizens have to jump through hoops of fire each and every time we want or need to accquire one in the "normal" manner. Yet, If someone wants to bypass all of that, they will do what the knuckledragger did at my home, bust in and steal them. Yes, there are laws against theft of guns, maybe we need more of them instead of having more laws to make it difficult to get legal ones.

    I don't know what the answer to crimes like this to be, yet it always seems to be someone looking for that 30 seconds of fame that has eluded them. Often with a stolen weapon and not one accuired legally.

    So, the mentality is to "ban" something that people who abide by laws own and those like the hoped-to-get-caught poor misguided soul who stole my guns will be unconcerned there is a gun ban and continue theiving unabated.
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    VIP Member Array pittypat21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoJoGunn;2487436tt
    I don't know what the answer to crimes like this to be
    That's just it, there is no answer. There is no solution to getting rid of crime. There will ALWAYS be crime. Anti-gunners think that by adding more legislation that crime will go away, but this isn't true. You can't rid the world of all evil. It will always exist, regardless of what laws are in place.
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    Good-Folks getting better in these situations. Bad-Because they keep happening

    As someone else once said on here, "trying to prevent crime with gun control is like trying to stop drunk driving by taking the keys away from sober drivers."

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    Quote Originally Posted by noway2 View Post
    As someone else once said on here, "trying to prevent crime with gun control is like trying to stop drunk driving by taking the keys away from sober drivers."
    Great analogy! I'm going to use that on some of my family members.
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    Member Array Glhadiator's Avatar
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    People do seem to be getting better at reacting to a shooting situation. I can't begin to guess what that may suggest or mean. I try to stay focused on my SA and self protection. I can only hope that's the direction that the general public headed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pittypat21 View Post
    That's just it, there is no answer. There is no solution to getting rid of crime. There will ALWAYS be crime. Anti-gunners think that by adding more legislation that crime will go away, but this isn't true. You can't rid the world of all evil. It will always exist, regardless of what laws are in place.
    Right, pittypat21. Many well-intentioned folks believe we need to do more to keep guns out of hands of the violently criminally insane out of a knee-jerk to the latest mass or high-profile shooting by a lunatic. It's true that Israel and Japan don't have mall shootings. But the problem isn't mall shootings. It's human depravity. Israel and Japan have bombings and other forms of mass attacks on innocent civilians. In fact, we have to weigh the cost of freedom and its protections like 2A because one price of freedom is eternal vigilance.
    And it is right to intelligently compare facts of homicides in our country vs those in more restrictive countries as most other countries have more restrictive gun. Even if the scientists find a happy medium, there are many obstacles in politics and implementation. But we should bear in mind that laws very often have unintended consequences that make the problem worse as we plainly see if we stop to analyze intelligently. I think you may agree.
    The article says that the folks in the mall calmly vacated and secured themselves in stores. And another article said that the first cops (transit police) arrived a minute after the first 911. With their ability to adapt, humans seem to triumph over evil. This is the pattern throughout history. In that context, the greatest and most enduring laws seem to be no more than codified ethics also subject to their contemporary environment.
    IOW, people adapt, laws are almost always behind the curve accomplishing little, nothing, or worse than the natural human response.
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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Long before guns and knives even existed, there was crime (evil in the world). Sometime after we gained knowledge, we became aware of the evil in the world. And the first Felony crime reported was murder... and the murder rate was 25%, and there were no guns, and there may not have been knives.

    There is evil in the world. There will be until TEOTWAWKI. I am equipped to keep evil at bay, until I die or the end comes.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

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    Not to hijack, but it is a salient point that goes back to the founders who were deeply aware of the human frailties and virtues of which we speak and who found the best solution in the greatest freedom.
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

  12. #12
    Member Array steffen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glhadiator View Post
    People do seem to be getting better at reacting to a shooting situation. I can't begin to guess what that may suggest or mean. I try to stay focused on my SA and self protection. I can only hope that's the direction that the general public headed.
    All it means is that people are programmed to survive even if their emotions get in the way. People create legislation based on fear, and then when it doesn't make them safer they use logic to execute a plan that works.

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