Video of Officer Shooting a Suspect - Warning Graphic

This is a discussion on Video of Officer Shooting a Suspect - Warning Graphic within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I don't know any of the facts but it seems to me like overkill ( no pun intended ). It was domestic abuse not a ...

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Thread: Video of Officer Shooting a Suspect - Warning Graphic

  1. #31
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    I don't know any of the facts but it seems to me like overkill ( no pun intended ). It was domestic abuse not a mass murder. What ever happened to the police officier who made the kill? I thought he shot way to soon. But I don't know the background of the suspect. I would like to read a follow up on the case.

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  3. #32
    NMB
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    Drop the knife, hands up!

    *ok but let me reach into my truck really quick.

    bang bang bang bang....

    case closed
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  4. #33
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    Reportedly, the dead man's foot was caught in the seatbelt, he was trying to free himself... I don't blame the cop... but...
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrBuckwheat View Post
    I don't know any of the facts but it seems to me like overkill ( no pun intended ). It was domestic abuse not a mass murder. What ever happened to the police officier who made the kill? I thought he shot way to soon. But I don't know the background of the suspect. I would like to read a follow up on the case.
    Shooter was cleared and is back on the streets working it says. Family released the video the day after he was cleared.
    There's nothing like a funeral to make you feel alive

  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadguy View Post
    Shooter was cleared and is back on the streets working it says. Family released the video the day after he was cleared.
    Then it is very very sad.

  7. #36
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMB View Post
    Drop the knife, hands up!

    *ok but let me reach into my truck really quick.

    bang bang bang bang....

    case closed
    Really? What about a person with bad hearing, a medical condition, just plain stupid and can't follow directions. You don't shoot folks under those circumstances but each one could have been a reason for a person to not comply immediatly with a LEO's commands.

    Not faulting the officer because like all situations we have different opinions. My concern is that some folks seem to think that any non immediate compliance with a LEO is justification for the LEO to shoot while claiming xyz. From what I have read and seen it appears tha if the actions of the LEO wer different then the outcome could have been different.

    I am not a LEO but I think that in many of these situations if the LEO was doing something better or the protocol for their actions were better then some shootings would not happen. That is not dogging LE at all. I hope that LE does a good after action after all shooting incidents and:
    1. Reprimands LEO's that screwed up
    2. Don't punish LEO's that shoot because of a faulty protocol which they were following
    3. Reward officer's that go against protocol and don't shoot even though they could have done so and brought about a better resolution
    4. Change policy accordingly and learn from each and every shooting.
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  8. #37
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    And the moral of the story is; Don't put yourself in a situation to get the cops called on you. They always bring guns. Sometimes they use them. Being an upstanding citizen goes a long way toward insuring that you will never get shot by a cop.
    "If you only knew the power of the dark side!" - Darth Vader

  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    I am not going to debate what was in the LEO's mind. But wha concerns me about shoots is I always ask myself this:

    Self: What would happen to me under the same circumstances (minus the LEO's obligation to his job)?

    I reply to myself:

    Self: I would be in jail. If I said I perceived a weapon and there were none then I am screwed.

    EDIT: as a non LEO I would of course aviod situations, I am referring to whatever would have caused me to shoot in wha I perceived was a threat to my life.
    I'm not defending (or criticizing) the officer's actions one way or another, merely pointing out things which at first glance may be less than obvious.
    suntzu likes this.
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  10. #39
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    This is a tough one here. Even though i have to side with DA and others analysis that cleared him.

    He was disobeying many orders and was known to be a violent offender. So it wouldn't have surprised me in the least if he went inside an armed himself with an AR or weapon or possibly intiated some sort of hostage situation.

  11. #40
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    99.9% of the time I will side with police on shootings.

    There are a lot of unknowns and it's easy to "arm chair quarterback". From what I read and what I can see in the video, my opinion is that I can understand & relate to the officers response, but I believe much of his training was overcome by his uncontrolled fear and adrenaline.

    Again, this is off of what I can see, and do not know.

    Knowing that a man can close that kind of gap with a knife before most people are even capable of drawing their firearm, I still believe the officer could have used other tactics to prevent the escalation and remain in full control of his faculties.

    The perp was returning to a domestic disturbance. Maybe the driver's side door was busted and he always had to get out the passenger side? His reach into the vehicle was likely to remove his entangled foot. The knife was not found and likely a creation of the officer's fear response. The perp did not follow the instructions of the officer, and while that contributes to the escalation, it doesn't justify a shoot in itself.

    These types of things usually go down very fast. The perp was acting abnormally and the officer was there in response to an active domestic disturbance. The shoot is justified as it played out from the officers perspective, I just don't think it was correct approach.

    If we don't look at these videos critically, we won't learn to be better.
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  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    I am not going to debate what was in the LEO's mind. But wha concerns me about shoots is I always ask myself this:

    Self: What would happen to me under the same circumstances (minus the LEO's obligation to his job)?

    I reply to myself:

    Self: I would be in jail. If I said I perceived a weapon and there were none then I am screwed.

    EDIT: as a non LEO I would of course aviod situations, I am referring to whatever would have caused me to shoot in wha I perceived was a threat to my life.
    I think in a very similar situation you would be just fine! You would still be arrested, but probably released or at least given bail. The situation would have been slightly different because you are not a LEO.

    lets say your sister or daughter and their husband had a fight that turned violent, the cops were called, the husband fled, and the Cop could not stay to arrest the husband when he returned. You were called to come over to keep the peace and comfort her.
    Some time later the husband comes flying into the driveway, and you step out on to the front walk to tell him to stay in the truck, or move on, the cops had been called. Instead the husband starts doing irrational things, He reaches around in the seat, then he starts coming out the passenger door right toward you! He has something shinny in his hand as he dives toward you! You draw your gun and shout "Stop or Ill have to shoot but Hes still coming! Now he lunging your way, So you open fire!

    With only those facts would you be arrested? yes! Would you probably be released? YES! Would you have to tell your side of the story to a judge? Absolutely! The Dead guys family is going to sue you even if you are not charged with his killing. Just like the cop in the above story. In court Your attny is going to tell that the shinny thing you saw in his hand was the seat belt that the dead guy was tangled in causing him to fall as he exited the trucks passenger door. But it looked like a weapon to you at that moment.
    The differences between you and a LEO are that He had a Video recording of the whole incident, He has a union rep, a lawyer, a police department, and a DA, all backing his word that the dead guy caused his own death.
    But under the circumstances You were in a place you had good reason to be, You were protecting your loved one from further harm, and at that moment it looked like you were going to be attacked! I say it was a justified defense of your life! DR

  13. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by ep1953 View Post
    Was the suspect driving or was someone else driving? If the suspect, why would he exit the passenger door?

    ^Because he ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


    was a thug, and this it is how they roll.
    They figure that tactic will result in perhaps throwing the police officer off guard and thereby would allow said thug time enough to bail from the vehicle is a hurry and get away.

    Looked to me the thug was fumbling with something, while he was trying to make a break for it.
    Did the police have to fire on him?
    Should the thug have done what was ordered by the police?
    These punks live by the sword, and die by the sword, and then they(and their family) want to hold others accountable for their stupid actions.
    Looks like that city is not going to play that game, according to how the DA is rendering a decision.
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  14. #43
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    This guy may indeed have been a bad guy that needed killing, but not because he was hung up on a seat belt trying to get out of the vehicle.
    6 to 8 shots after he is on the ground, oh yea he is still moving, I tend to think anyone would be after just getting shot, it tends to hurt.
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    1911 when a follow up shot just isn't an option

  15. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by ntkb View Post
    This guy may indeed have been a bad guy that needed killing, but not because he was hung up on a seat belt trying to get out of the vehicle.
    6 to 8 shots after he is on the ground, oh yea he is still moving, I tend to think anyone would be after just getting shot, it tends to hurt.
    For the most part, it appears that he cleared his magazine in less than a couple seconds. Training teaches you to shoot until the target is completely immobile. You have to take into account the stresses that are at play, that the video doesn't capture. Remember, this ain't the movies and there is no audio score to enhance your awareness of the intensity.

    "Killing" is closer to murder than a defensive act to protect. No one deserves murder even though many set their end game in motion by their own choice.
    oneshot likes this.
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  16. #45
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    Poor tactics plain and simple.

    Shooting could have initially been avoided in those first few seconds if the officer didn't rush in like a cowboy, talking about "i'm going to shoot you", he could have simply stayed behind his car or even positioned his car in front of the lawn or to where he could have had a better vantage point.

    He went in at a 10 so he pretty much had to shoot the guy.
    Se7en.US and d2jlking like this.

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