Video of Officer Shooting a Suspect - Warning Graphic

This is a discussion on Video of Officer Shooting a Suspect - Warning Graphic within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I'm no pro and I can leave a comment. In my opinion, the officer could have stood behind his vehicle as trained. He emptied 11 ...

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Thread: Video of Officer Shooting a Suspect - Warning Graphic

  1. #46
    Member Array Se7en.US's Avatar
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    Re: Video of Officer Shooting a Suspect - Warning Graphic

    I'm no pro and I can leave a comment.
    In my opinion, the officer could have stood behind his vehicle as trained.
    He emptied 11 shots into the suspect..from 4' ± away!
    again in my opinion is aggressive and reckless.
    I see 3 different tactics the officer could have used.

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  3. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Se7en.US View Post
    I'm no pro and I can leave a comment.
    In my opinion, the officer could have stood behind his vehicle as trained.
    He emptied 11 shots into the suspect..from 4' ± away!
    again in my opinion is aggressive and reckless.
    I see 3 different tactics the officer could have used.

    ^^^^^^^^I'm no expert either^^^^^^^^^^^


    He(the officer) could have also just said the hell with putting his life in danger and stayed @ the coffee shop, the police station, radioed his dispatcher and said he was too busy helping a little old lady across the street somewhere safe or rescuing a lost kitten up a tree.......etc..............

    When in name of all that is holy are people going to quit crying about what police do in a situation like this, when this thug was going against a restraining order.
    People would be calling for the chief of polices' head if this knuckledragger would have beat up his wife, or worse, killed her.
    The police agency has most likely had plenty of "run ins" with this knuckleragger before, and knew what he was potentially capable of.

    I guess they(the police) are damned if they do and damned if they don't.
    On one hand we have the thugs family & their punk lawyers crying foul.
    OTOH, we would have a teaddy bear candle light vigil with hundreds of people saying , "why didn't the police stop him before he murdered her".

    Which should be the preffered outcome here folks.
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  4. #48
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    The point is for LEO's to act properly, use proper procedures, and use their judgements when approaching any individual. This LEO did not stay in his coffee shop but was at the scene. So his actions are definitly open for critique. The officer appears to have used poor technique and judgement IMO. Does not mean anything bad about the person. But he shot an unarmed man who may or may not have been about to attack the officer.

    It appears that the officer was cleared because it was "understandable" that he thought his life was in danger. But did he have to have been put in that situation to begin with? That is the question

    Folks get upset when on this forum folks question a shooting. Nobody is ever defending the BG. But we do call into question if the shoot had to occur at all.

    There have been times when officers have shot recklessley and they get a slap on the wrist because "it is their job".
    It seems that a lot of folks are questioning the LEO's judgment on this.

    As far as the lady being in danger....It seems like she was in no immediate threat. You make it sound like he had a knife to her throat. He was getting out of his car at the time so your reasoning is flat out wrong. The officer had ample time to assess the situation and had time to protect the lady if the man was going to do her harm.

    I am questioning his actions with the guy he shot at the time. Not that he is risking his life to protect the community. And if he wants to protect the community he needs to ne aware of what he is doing.

    Funny thing is, except for motive and a few other things, the shooting (and I mean the reason for pulling the trigger) is the same as the guy in FL who shot the car laod of kids for loud music.

    He obviously did not handle the situation well in a million ways, but when you get down to his defense it is the same as the officer: I thought I saw a "fill in the blank here".
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

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  5. #49
    Distinguished Member Array deadguy's Avatar
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    Video of Officer Shooting a Suspect - Warning Graphic

    For those questioning his passenger side exit, maybe the driver side door wasn't working. "Knuckledraggin' thugs" aren't the only folks that exit the other door. I have a truck with a non working driver side door and it has to be entered through the passenger side.

    Maybe I'm a knuckledragger, too. Guess I need to look up the definition.
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  6. #50
    Senior Member Array sheepdog's Avatar
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    Okay, I had to quit reading part way through because of my blood pressure is elevated due to dealing with some members of the public over the last over 30 years who get their police training from television, or at best a 4 year stint at an unnamed out of state agency (they often confess it was mall security or process server when I press them) or who were "MPs"...that I later found out stood at a gate and saluted all day and never investigated anything except a incorrectly placed base ID sticker on an officer's wife's car. I am forced to sort of muddle through with a state firearms instructors certification and formal training experience, watching one police shooting, being involved in one (yes I won), serving on a firearms/shooting review board, supervision at the scene of a couple of more OIS, along with no small amount of reading/training in use of lethal force and some understanding of the many misconceptions caused by perception of events on video seen later by a reviewer seeing a one-dimensional screen with the ability to see it with cool detachment and a hot cup of coffee compared to the events perceived by the officer operating under a massive adrenal dump fueling the ACTUAL officer's actions and the pressure of NOT letting the crook get away, get access (again) to the person he was not going after, or whatever. Especially in this case, with all the "heat" on officers over domestic violence and the duty to protect people. Not to mention understanding the little things like the brain's inability to perceive and relay to the trigger finger "time to stop pulling" before a suspect goes down. I've seen officers fire 16 round 9mm magazine in 2 seconds or slightly less at point blank, into center mass at 3 yards in training. 11 in 4 is not exactly full auto fire.
    So for the record, I will never review the videotape of anyone cutting hair, selling insurance, welding a bead on a busted pump part, teaching a high school algebra class, coaching an NFL team (though I know we can all do better from our living room, right?) and be terribly critical.
    The most important point I see out of everything that I read above is that if you are being chased by the police or arrested by the police, there are many things you can do to avoid being shot by accident or on purpose, one of them being doing what the officers ask and expect you to do, including being still and showing your hands as opposed to exiting from the wrong side of a vehicle in what looks like an attempt to escape to re-access somebody you don't need access to and avoid contact with the police. End of situation.
    And, by the way, get off my lawn. ;)
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  7. #51
    Member Array d2jlking's Avatar
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    Video of Officer Shooting a Suspect - Warning Graphic

    Quote Originally Posted by sheepdog View Post
    Okay, I had to quit reading part way through because of my blood pressure is elevated due to dealing with some members of the public over the last over 30 years who get their police training from television, or at best a 4 year stint at an unnamed out of state agency (they often confess it was mall security or process server when I press them) or who were "MPs"...that I later found out stood at a gate and saluted all day and never investigated anything except a incorrectly placed base ID sticker on an officer's wife's car. I am forced to sort of muddle through with a state firearms instructors certification and formal training experience, watching one police shooting, being involved in one (yes I won), serving on a firearms/shooting review board, supervision at the scene of a couple of more OIS, along with no small amount of reading/training in use of lethal force and some understanding of the many misconceptions caused by perception of events on video seen later by a reviewer seeing a one-dimensional screen with the ability to see it with cool detachment and a hot cup of coffee compared to the events perceived by the officer operating under a massive adrenal dump fueling the ACTUAL officer's actions and the pressure of NOT letting the crook get away, get access (again) to the person he was not going after, or whatever. Especially in this case, with all the "heat" on officers over domestic violence and the duty to protect people. Not to mention understanding the little things like the brain's inability to perceive and relay to the trigger finger "time to stop pulling" before a suspect goes down. I've seen officers fire 16 round 9mm magazine in 2 seconds or slightly less at point blank, into center mass at 3 yards in training. 11 in 4 is not exactly full auto fire.
    So for the record, I will never review the videotape of anyone cutting hair, selling insurance, welding a bead on a busted pump part, teaching a high school algebra class, coaching an NFL team (though I know we can all do better from our living room, right?) and be terribly critical.
    The most important point I see out of everything that I read above is that if you are being chased by the police or arrested by the police, there are many things you can do to avoid being shot by accident or on purpose, one of them being doing what the officers ask and expect you to do, including being still and showing your hands as opposed to exiting from the wrong side of a vehicle in what looks like an attempt to escape to re-access somebody you don't need access to and avoid contact with the police. End of situation.
    And, by the way, get off my lawn. ;)
    Wow you have lots of experience. I have none. Still dont think he should keep shooting when the guy is laying on the ground bleeding. Why is everyone getting upset with the critique on this forum. The video was posted for exactly that. This is NOT a police shooting review board. I suspect a good number of us are regular guys who are just basing opinions on what info we are given. Shoot my son 11 times when hes unarmed and im suing EVERYBODY. Wrong door domestic violence or not.
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  8. #52
    Senior Member Array ExaltedOne's Avatar
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    Using Poor tactics as an officer will either get you killed or tons of scrutiny which could lead to a trial or even the loss of your job (which could mean the loss of your house, marriage, etc). This isn't the 80's or early 90's when cops from the county jail to the streets could literally get away with actual murder and or beating someone with no consequences.

    Its 2012

    In 2012 with different departments nationwide revising their manuals of policy and procedures, cell phone cameras possessed by people who can upload videos to youtube in a matter of minutes. An officer has to be aware of his actions all the while maintaining the mindset of "im going home" at the end of my shift. The job is tough when you consider everything an officer has to deal with.

    So you shouldn't come in like a cowboy in this situation when no one was in imminent danger. The woman came out after the shooting so we know she wasn't in danger that's for sure.

    This would be different if he had a weapon; exited the vehicle and began to rapidly advance towards any possible entrance to the house while ignoring your commands to stop. Yet that's not the case in this situation and it could have possibly been avoided with better tactics by the officer. The officer is not out of hot water yet he can be sued in civil court.

    Officers in general do not get enough training by their department in all aspect of the job. Many have to go to seminars or take classes put on by companies that cost hundreds of dollars, some don't even do that because of the cost or they just have no interest.

  9. #53
    Senior Member Array ExaltedOne's Avatar
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    Good for the officer that there was only one threat with no gun since he fired 11rds. If you do the math you're looking at

    * A 1911 plus a reload with 5 rds remaining in the second mag.
    * A .40 with 3-4rds left.
    * A 9mm with 6rds left.

    How many here would have fired 11rds?

    I think I would have fired 4-7rds.

  10. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExaltedOne View Post
    Good for the officer that there was only one threat with no gun since he fired 11rds. If you do the math you're looking at

    * A 1911 plus a reload with 5 rds remaining in the second mag.
    * A .40 with 3-4rds left.
    * A 9mm with 6rds left.

    How many here would have fired 11rds?

    I think I would have fired 4-7rds.
    He said in the video that he thought he fired six.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
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  11. #55
    Senior Member Array ExaltedOne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    He said in the video that he thought he fired six.
    Things happen so fast that you only remember certain details. Some officers never even hear the report of their guns when they have to shoot. Some may not remember how many times they struck the head of a suspect with their fist or knees etc.

    This is something that perhaps only those who are into self defense can understand as far as auditory exclusion/fighting is concerned. The average citizen is going to say that the officer is lying and that the department is being dirty.

  12. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExaltedOne View Post
    Things happen so fast that you only remember certain details. Some officers never even hear the report of their guns when they have to shoot. Some may not remember how many times they struck the head of a suspect with their fist or knees etc.

    This is something that perhaps only those who are into self defense can understand as far as auditory exclusion/fighting is concerned. The average citizen is going to say that the officer is lying and that the department is being dirty.
    Auditory exclusion, tunnel vision, and time distortion were probably all experienced by the officer.
    ExaltedOne likes this.
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  13. #57
    Senior Member Array sheepdog's Avatar
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    Quick summary: what is seen on video from behind/beside the officer with broader vision and the benefit of hindsight not to mention distortions and partial facts presented as facts by the media (got ton of experience with that one!) and absence of enough adrenaline to fuel a rocket is not what the officer in the middle of the event sees. But if anyone thinks watching every single Cowboys game and yelling at the set when they make the wrong call means you could get them to the Super Bowl, give old Jerry a call, he could use a hand. Or you could read some of the research at Force Science Research Center about the "back shooting phenomenon" and find out why those rounds were going off for so long. Me? I already know, so I'm gonna catch that episode of "Real Amish Cougars of the Jersey Shore" rerun. Not sure it is legit, though.........
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