BREAKING: Shooting Connecticut Elementary School in Newtown

This is a discussion on BREAKING: Shooting Connecticut Elementary School in Newtown within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by Ogien Well you see, what you fail to realize is that I'm bargaining my 2A rights "away." ... along with those of ...

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Thread: BREAKING: Shooting Connecticut Elementary School in Newtown

  1. #391
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ogien View Post
    Well you see, what you fail to realize is that I'm bargaining my 2A rights "away."
    ... along with those of every other citizen in the process. It's recognized, easily. Hence the stridency.

    Suggestion, so this thread can get back on track: create a new thread for a discussion on possible effective, viable steps to enhance security, improve handling of criminals, improve detection of would-be criminals, etc. This back-and-forth, he-said/she-said bitchery in this thread is detracting from its real purpose. How dat?
    brocktice, msgt/ret and zacii like this.
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  3. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by brocktice View Post
    One such proposal is to arm and train a subset of teachers, for example. What other proposals could be put forward? Maybe requiring minimal safety education? That could actually help the industry and the community. I am open to suggestions.
    I proposed that on a Newspaper blog.

    The Anti-RKBA crowd went bonkers.

    One example:

    Dave Hicks, for the love of God, tell me you did not just suggest we train and arm teachers? Is that really your answer for this carnage? Train for it and arm yourself? Why don’t we just put up fences, razor wire and armed guards at every entrance like they have in prisons. Anything as long as YOUR rights are not “infringed” eh?
    FWIIW, I also suggested:

    I think that I have been clear for some time. IMHO, any place that is posted as “no firearms” should carry with that posting elevated security. If a location is sensitive enough to disarm folk, it deserves elevated security, IMHO. Why should judges be protected by metal-detectors and armed guards but not children?

    I also suggest that such postings establish a “special relationship” in tort litigation. A special relationship imposes duties upon a party where normally the law would not, such as protecting another from criminal attack by third party. Nonfeasance-based tort actions can arise where the plaintiff shows that the defendant should have intervened by controlling a third party or by taking measures to protect the plaintiff from injury. This was a key issue in the VT tort actions following the tragedy there.
    Again, no one wanted do hear it. All they wanted to do was blame the gun / ban the gun.
    Last edited by DaveH; December 16th, 2012 at 12:42 AM. Reason: spacing
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  4. #393
    Ex Member Array Ogien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    ... along with those of every other citizen in the process. It's recognized, easily. Hence the stridency.

    Suggestion, so this thread can get back on track: create a new thread for a discussion on possible effective, viable steps to enhance security, improve handling of criminals, improve detection of would-be criminals, etc. This back-and-forth, he-said/she-said bitchery in this thread is detracting from its real purpose. How dat?
    There is no need for profanity. I'd like to think us polite company.

    Edit: Retracted due to misunderstanding.

  5. #394
    Distinguished Member Array brocktice's Avatar
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    Re: BREAKING: Shooting Connecticut Elementary School in Newtown

    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Suggestion, so this thread can get back on track: create a new thread for a discussion on possible effective, viable steps to enhance security, improve handling of criminals, improve detection of would-be criminals, etc. This back-and-forth, he-said/she-said bitchery in this thread is detracting from its real purpose. How dat?
    I'm on mobile so if someone else could start that and point the way that'd be great.

  6. #395
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    I agree, let's take it somewhere else. How about in the "It's ABSOLUTELY time to talk about gun...." something, somewhere on the forum.
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  7. #396
    Ex Member Array Ogien's Avatar
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    I think that the position I'm maybe not explaining very well is that I believe that we as a community and the NRA, at it's forefront, should demonstrate that we are able to (pardon the word) "police" ourselves and that we are good and reasonable men and women. Make it clear that we love our country but that we recognize there is a major problem where innocent children are being murdered. That we, as gun owner community are not immune to the pain of 20 murdered 6 year olds and that we want to be on the forefront of coming up with solutions rather than arguing, circling the wagons and sticking our fingers in our ears while proclaiming loudly "NAH NAH NAH I CAN'T HEAR YOU."

    My point is that we will end up even more marginalized unless we can show that we are responsible men and women. Yes, this cretin who shot up the school and murdered those kids was a monster but nevertheless this issue has landed in our lap and we are willing to do what we can (within reason) to help prevent such things from ever happening again to the best of our ability.

    The fact is that people are terrified to start with and now they have to wonder if their children are safe in their school. I can't imagine being terrified for my children while they are supposed to be in a safe environment.

    I know these were the actions of a monster and not a gun just as well as you do. The issue is that right or wrong this is going to fall on the gun itself when the issue isn't the gun so much as the monster holding it. A small voluntary concession may quell the fears of some and make them realize that we are not the villains here and that we're on their side. I don't know what that concession is supposed to be and that's what I'm trying to discuss with you fine folks.
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  8. #397
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    You don't have to bargain your 2nd amendment rights away. All you have to do is choose not to exercise all or part of your rights. Your rights are yours to do with as you please.

    I choose to retain all of my 2nd Amendment rights. They are my rights and no one has the right to alter my rights. My rights are unalienable.

    Extending an olive branch means to offer peace.

    Us law abiding citizens who own guns are and have been offering peace...we want our rights to be left alone. The anti-gun people are the ones who want to force gun owners to give up their rights. The anti-gun people are the ones who are attacking the rights that belong to other people. These are not peaceful actions. The anti-gun people are the aggressors. The gun owners are the ones who are defending the 2nd Amendment. What part about "Shall not be infringed" do you and the anti-gun people not understand? It doesn't say, "can be infringed", "shall be infringed", "should be infringed", "could be slightly infringed"...no it says "Shall not be infringed".

    If the anti-gun people would stop attacking us and our rights, there would be "peace". The 2nd amendment and guns are not responsible for these tragedies. Crazy people are responsible for these tragedies.
    ccw9mm and phreddy like this.
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  9. #398
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    BREAKING: Shooting Connecticut Elementary School in Newtown

    I don't which is more frightening.. The mindset of this lunatic or those here on a GUN FORUM trying to decide what rights we should give up so that we can all sleep at night!
    If any of you think we need to compromise ANYTHING related to your right to keep and bear arms to PACIFY the anti crowd... You've already lost the fight... And my respect for you.
    You should be ashamed of yourselves for even thinking it...
    It disgusts me to hear this talk... It's week and cowardly and unbecoming of a true patriot...ImageUploadedByTapatalk1355636407.794867.jpg

  10. #399
    StarPD45
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlesMorri View Post
    I don't which is more frightening.. The mindset of this lunatic or those here on a GUN FORUM trying to decide what rights we should give up so that we can all sleep at night!
    If any of you think we need to compromise ANYTHING related to your right to keep and bear arms to PACIFY the anti crowd... You've already lost the fight... And my respect for you.
    You should be ashamed of yourselves for even thinking it...
    It disgusts me to hear this talk... It's week and cowardly and unbecoming of a true patriot...ImageUploadedByTapatalk1355636407.794867.jpg
    AMEN !

  11. #400
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ogien View Post
    I know these were the actions of a monster and not a gun just as well as you do. The issue is that right or wrong this is going to fall on the gun itself when the issue isn't the gun so much as the monster holding it. A small voluntary concession may quell the fears of some and make them realize that we are not the villains here and that we're on their side. I don't know what that concession is supposed to be and that's what I'm trying to discuss with you fine folks.
    What further “concessions” do you propose? Starting with the NFA of 1934 and the GCA of 1968 we have had more than enough “concessions” and what have they gotten us other than even more restrictions and infringements of a basic right.
    When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
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  12. #401
    Ex Member Array Ogien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msgt/ret View Post
    What further “concessions” do you propose? Starting with the NFA of 1934 and the GCA of 1968 we have had more than enough “concessions” and what have they gotten us other than even more restrictions and infringements of a basic right.
    I don't pretend to know what the concession or whatever you want to call it should be. I don't know how the NRA can go from attack dog to protector and the voice of reason. This is why I'm raising these questions here so we can collectively come up with something maybe.

    All I am certain of is that it'll be better for us if the solution or "bandaide" solution comes from us rather than the laws that will likely be imposed on us by those who don't even own firearms and don't understand those who do.

    It is extremely important that we stand UNITED with the families of the victims and declare that what happened in Connecticut is unacceptable and WE will do "something" about it.

  13. #402
    Ex Member Array CharlesMorri's Avatar
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    BREAKING: Shooting Connecticut Elementary School in Newtown

    Quote Originally Posted by Ogien View Post
    I don't pretend to know what the concession or whatever you want to call it should be. I don't know how the NRA can go from attack dog to protector and the voice of reason. This is why I'm raising these questions here so we can collectively come up with something maybe.

    All I am certain of is that it'll be better for us if the solution or "bandaide" solution comes from us rather than the laws that will likely be imposed on us by those who don't even own firearms and don't understand those who do.
    You are a disgrace to the gun community. Truly pathetic and an embarrassment.
    You are nothing more than a troll, here to stir up and agitate the forum.
    You talk of "concessions", giving up something to appease the antis so you can keep your nightstand gun.
    You are no better than the dog that pees out of fear of his master, about to be beaten.
    You are weak in mind and body and a cancer to the people who have fought and died for our right to keep and bear arms.
    I wish I could feel sorry for you but all I can feel is contempt.

  14. #403
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    Quote Originally Posted by kerberos View Post
    Where was that stated in the Constitution exactly???

    I must have missed it the last time I read it...

    Your kidding. Read the standing Constitutional law regarding the Second A. as set by SCOTUS of just recent vintage in the HELLER OPINION. Then the Declaration of Independence. Why do you believe the Amendments are there?

  15. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlesMorri View Post


    You are a disgrace to the gun community. Truly pathetic and an embarrassment.
    You are nothing more than a troll, here to stir up and agitate the forum.
    You talk of "concessions", giving up something to appease the antis so you can keep your nightstand gun.
    You are no better than the dog that pees out of fear of his master, about to be beaten.
    You are weak in mind and body and a cancer to the people who have fought and died for our right to keep and bear arms.
    I wish I could feel sorry for you but all I can feel is contempt.
    Did it ever occur to you that others, including those who own and shoot guns, can have opinions different from yours without being the scum of the earth. You're not right, you have an opinion that's all. So do others. This is America - we were founded on the right to have our thoughts and words with freedom. Your attitude, if put into action by a a government, would deny and punish that. It's always best to remember the country we're in.

  16. #405
    Ex Member Array CharlesMorri's Avatar
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    BREAKING: Shooting Connecticut Elementary School in Newtown

    Quote Originally Posted by Ogien View Post
    I don't pretend to know what the concession or whatever you want to call it should be. I don't know how the NRA can go from attack dog to protector and the voice of reason. This is why I'm raising these questions here so we can collectively come up with something maybe.

    All I am certain of is that it'll be better for us if the solution or "bandaide" solution comes from us rather than the laws that will likely be imposed on us by those who don't even own firearms and don't understand those who do.

    It is extremely important that we stand UNITED with the families of the victims and declare that what happened in Connecticut is unacceptable and WE will do "something" about it.
    I think you have worn out your welcome here.
    You have nothing constructive to contribute other than your stance on what we should give up to the antis to appease them. To placate them.
    You sir are fired. Pack your things up and move along.
    You are the weak link...
    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1355642615.097076.jpg
    Happypuppy likes this.

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