GOOD: Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter - Page 3

GOOD: Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter

This is a discussion on GOOD: Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; It's the "shoot the BG at all cost" attitude that gives the anti-gun crowd more ammo against CCW. This young man showed great judgment and ...

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Thread: GOOD: Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter

  1. #31
    Member Array BamaAlum97's Avatar
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    GOOD: Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter

    It's the "shoot the BG at all cost" attitude that gives the anti-gun crowd more ammo against CCW. This young man showed great judgment and I am glad it was him in this situation and not someone who is itching for the opportunity to kill a BG and willing to take a risky shot.

    He correctly identified that he did not have a clear backdrop and opted not to shoot. A+ and a fine CCW'er. Well done young man.
    ccw9mm, Billb1960, Bark'n and 2 others like this.


  2. #32
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  3. #33
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    I myself like his tactics; he took cover, checked on his companions, assessed the situation then took appropriate action. Since he did not have a clear field of fire he did not shoot but in my mind once it was safe for others and had the shooter not taken his own life he would have stopped the shooter.
    Billb1960, Bark'n, ccw9mm and 2 others like this.
    When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
    "Don't forget, incoming fire has the right of way."

  4. #34
    Senior Member Array KBSR's Avatar
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    I believe its equally important for responsible people to know when not to shoot, as it is to know when to shoot. Your training, if effective, will present you with "no shoot" situations, as often, or perhaps more often, than "shoot" situations. Law enforcement officers all train, or should all train like this. As a NRA police firearms instructor, I was trained and instructed on how to create these drills on a live firing range, and we also used the FATS system, and other like systems, which allowed for various video simulated shoot/don't shoot scenarios, to test the speed, accuracy, and most importantly judgement of the shooter.

    At the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center (FLETC) in Brunswick, Georgia, every student must pass this segment of training with a 100% score, to pass the course and go on to graduate. Anything less than 100% just isn't good enough. Trust me when I say there is a lot of stressed out students during this block of instruction.

    We fight like we train, as everyone should know, which is why training is so vitally important. If you train to always, see the threat, draw and fire, and holster, you're going to do that in the real world as well. More often than not, in the real world, you'll see the threat, draw, and NOT fire, and reholster. You see life isn't a "free fire zone, weapons free zone" or whatever you want to call it. There are many reasons why you can not, or should not fire. If you can't safely take the shot, because of innocents in the line of fire (in front of, or in the background) you need to know how to holster your weapon, instead of firing it before holstering.

    Just some food for thought ya'll. Be safe.
    shockwave likes this.
    " But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself... Baa." Col. Dave Grossman on Sheep and Sheepdogs.

  5. #35
    VIP Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    The rules of firearm safety do not change at any time. Know your target and your backstop is a fundamental principle and this owner followed the rule. He gets full marks for his action.

    Chances are, in this kind of situation, you'll be carrying your CCW, and you know you are accurate to around 25 feet. Beyond that range, a compact handgun is not a precision instrument. If the BG is giving you a good backstop, you can contemplate suppressive fire with a chance for a hit.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

  6. #36
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    I'm going to break my no more post rule

    Meli did right in not taking the shot from where he stood but let his training rule the fight. Because he most likely trains on square ranges with no movement allowed moving to change the background never came to mind and that is where he lost the fight. In my book! There was no rule saying he had to stay behind that post and take or not take the shot. The shooter was having problems with his rifle and could not fire if the distance was to far to be accurate then get closer. The fight is going to be what it is going to be not what we do on the range or in IDPA in a true fight there are no rules just get it done. If if will not work the way it is set up now change it.

    You will fight the fight the way you train and if you don't train on a 360 degree free fire range some how at times you are not training for a true life gunfight. How do we train 360 with airsoft and FOF training.

    I see it as he had it before him and because it didn't fit the mold he backed away. If plan A does not work you have all the other plans to Z then you start with plan AA ect.
    rmxer85 likes this.
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  7. #37
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    I wasn't there, certainly can't say what I'd do or not do, but I will take issue with the article saying he "confronted" the shooter. Complete lack of a challenge is hardly a confrontation.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

  8. #38
    VIP Member Array JoJoGunn's Avatar
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    Not all confrontations with an active shooter and an armed individual need to result in that armed person shooting the perp. As I have stated in other posts, there are no two active shooter scenarios exactly alike an no amount of training or "I'll just shoot the guy" will be known in advance. We have to assess each and every situation as it presents itself.

    This concealed carrier did all the right things, he got his peeps to safety, he found cover, he drew his weapon and had it at the ready and then, he confronted the shooter and his jammed rifle.

    He could have been Mr. Macho and blew this guy away, and possibly someone else who was totally innocent. Why take that chance? Had there been nobody near this shooter then I believe he (carry guy) would have taken a shot.

    He (carry guy) stopped the threat, stopped it cold. The perp knew the game was up, his rifle was jammed, he was confronted with someone armed and that threw a monkey wrench into his plans. He probably never anticipated or planned for an armed confrontation, he figured he had a flock of sheep to slaughter. Guess again, genius. He took the cowards way out and shot himself. Good for him.

    Now the additional tragedy to this is that since there was a legal, concealed carrier in this place and his actions even without shooting saved lives, the anti gun people will still cling to the hope of more gun laws and disarming citizens like this hero. His actions should be considered but alas, to people that hate them, guns do not belong into the hands of anyone.
    Last edited by JoJoGunn; December 17th, 2012 at 08:47 AM.
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  9. #39
    Senior Member Array WebleyHunter's Avatar
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    Gentlemen,

    The fact is that Nick's actions probably saved a bunch of lives. Not personally knowing Nick, I hope his account can be verified by video cameras or witness collaboration to remove any possible rebuke to the event.

    I think we can agree the MOST important thing about this story is getting it into the mass media stream. As of this morning, a Google News search for "Nick Meli" leads to only TWO relevant results. I have already contacted my local media asking them to look into the story and sent tips to Drudge.

    If you know an effective way to get a story into the media- PLEASE DO IT!

    Thanks,

    Hunter

  10. #40
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    From the article:
    ""I know after he saw me I think the last shot he fired was the one he used on himself.""

    Obviously the last shot he fired was the one he used on himself.

    As I said before, and I have no issue with the CC'er, but to assume his actions had anything to do with the shooter deciding to give up his cause and do himself in are a bit of a stretch. We don't even know for sure that the shooter even noticed the CCer. One can look and not see what's plainly in front of you. This is too much of a "Hell, I was there!" story for me to give credit to the CCer for stopping the assault. Yes, he made a wise move in protecting his friend and seeking cover, even drawing his firearm in defence, but beyond mere presense, with no direct verbal confrontation or physical challenge, I don't see anything beyond a physical, alert presense.

    We all seek a glimmer of hope in this world of darkness.
    Bill MO likes this.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill MO View Post
    ... I do have to wonder why many even carry a gun because they will never use it. WHY? Because of FEAR. They fear shooting someone else during the fight, they fear the DA after the fight is over, they fear being hurt (yes they fear being killed too but most of all just plain HURT. Fear will keep them from ever using a gun and if they do use it that which they fear will come to pass, because they have willed it to in their minds for so long....

    Most people carrying guns only see defeat if they use it.

    Their are those how will say i carry for ME and MINE no one less. I say that's an excuse, I wonder if you would use it to protect even yours. I know I'm saying some rough things here but we are not playing games we are facing evil of the world and need to act accordingly. If we don't we've lost before the fight begins.

    ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill MO View Post
    Meli did right in not taking the shot from where he stood but let his training rule the fight. Because he most likely trains on square ranges with no movement allowed moving to change the background never came to mind and that is where he lost the fight. In my book! There was no rule saying he had to stay behind that post and take or not take the shot. The shooter was having problems with his rifle and could not fire if the distance was to far to be accurate then get closer. The fight is going to be what it is going to be not what we do on the range or in IDPA in a true fight there are no rules just get it done. If if will not work the way it is set up now change it.

    You will fight the fight the way you train and if you don't train on a 360 degree free fire range some how at times you are not training for a true life gunfight. How do we train 360 with airsoft and FOF training.

    I see it as he had it before him and because it didn't fit the mold he backed away. If plan A does not work you have all the other plans to Z then you start with plan AA ect.
    Meli is a trained security guard and even worked at the Clackamas mall before getting a job at another mall and has a career goal of being in law enforcement. Your characterizations of him don't jibe with what we know. I subscribe to the statement of warriors I have known - those who talk the most have done the least. Meli is soft spoken and gives a credible report.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoJoGunn View Post
    Not all confrontations with an active shooter and an armed individual need to result in that armed person shooting the perp. As I have stated in other posts, there are no two active shooter scenarios exactly alike an no amount of training or "I'll just shoot the guy" will be known in advance. We have to assess each and every situation as it presents itself.

    This concealed carrier did all the right things, he got his peeps to safety, he found cover, he drew his weapon and had it at the ready and then, he confronted the shooter and his jammed rifle.

    He could have been Mr. Macho and blew this guy away, and possibly someone else who was totally innocent. Why take that chance? Had there been nobody near this shooter then I believe we would have he (carry guy) would have taken a shot.

    He (carry guy) stopped the threat, stopped it cold. The perp knew the game was up, his rifle was jammed, he was confronted with someone armed and that threw a monkey wrench into his plans. He probably never anticipated or planned for an armed confrontation, he figured he had a flock of sheep to slaughter. Guess again, genius. He took the cowards way out and shot himself. Good for him.

    Now the additional tragedy to this is that since there was a legal, concealed carrier in this place and his actions even without shooting saved lives, the anti gun people will still cling to the hope of more gun laws and disarming citizens like this hero. His actions should be considered but alas, to people that hate them, guns do not belong into the hands of anyone.
    The whole DC community across the country owes Meli a "thank you" for not being the first permitted carrier who hurts or kills an innocent - for not making big news that makes media lick their chops.
    One of our members that started the first thread on Newtown said that Clackamas was posted GFZ, but I hear no reports of that and think that, if true, it is sure to be part of the report - as it has some potential to cast aspersions on those who carry - even level-headed potential heroes like Meli.
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

  12. #42
    Ex Member Array EasyBakeGunClub's Avatar
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    The Full Story

    Hi everyone!

    We saw the traffic coming over from here and I wanted to see the thread and take a look at the site.

    I love the community you have here and I'm going to set up a personal count later today to be a part of the community.

    I wanted to hop on real quick and say that we had an interview with Nick last night and we were able to get all of the story and make a new post about it.

    It definitely puts Nicks actions in a light that I can't imagine even a gun grabber would have a problem with.

    It's a great read and one of those perfectly timed stories. If gun control is going to be pushed, we need to remind people just how influential a single legal concealed carrier can change the bad guys plan.

    Concealed Carry Hero at Portland Mall - The Full Story

    Thanks again and let me know your thoughts.
    Billb1960 likes this.

  13. #43
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    Thank you for the full story and with that I retract my other posts
    Billb1960 likes this.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyBakeGunClub View Post
    Concealed Carry Hero at Portland Mall - The Full Story

    Thanks again and let me know your thoughts.
    That is a riviting story, thanks for posting it here. I'm amazed at the quick thinking and poise all these young people had in the face of such fear. Nick really is a hero and this story needs to get to the general public.
    It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

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  15. #45
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    GOOD: Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter

    I bet the national media would've reported this if this young man had taken a bad shot and injured or killed an innocent person. They would've made an example out of him big time. There's nothing more the anti gunners would love to get ahold of than a CCer making a bad judgment call and taking an innocent life. IMO, this guy made a fine call not to shoot. Now I want the national media to report on this....

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