Opinion Piece : Do We Value Guns More Than Children? - Page 2

Opinion Piece : Do We Value Guns More Than Children?

This is a discussion on Opinion Piece : Do We Value Guns More Than Children? within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by oakchas Every one of the posts above is absolutely right... And yet. We know we are going to lose something as a ...

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Thread: Opinion Piece : Do We Value Guns More Than Children?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    Every one of the posts above is absolutely right...

    And yet.

    We know we are going to lose something as a result of this tragedy... what are we going to sacrifice? No, really. Not going to volunteer something..? everything is critical..?

    We must have black furniture, we must have extended mags, we must have grenade launchers, taking anything is infringement.

    Yes it is.

    But Heller allows for restrictions, lest we forget.

    And the restrictions are coming...

    While I haven't given up, and while I know as well as all of you do that the AWB did nothing to stop this type of madness... I know we are going to lose something.

    It might be better if we pick it than if "they" do.

    Just sayin'

    It's an unpopular opinion but I tend to agree. The public is focused on this right now and some concessions will have to be made. We know our rifles didn't do it and it's a false sense of security at best but I don't think even the NRA can stop this train from rolling. I don't think they are going to bend over and take it but will probably only be able to slow it a little.
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  2. #17
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    Re: Opinion Piece : Do We Value Guns More Than Children?

    Here is my response that I just sent to the author.

    Ms. Munson,

    I am a gun owner. Until the birth of my daughter and the flurry of random mass shootings - one of which hit extremely close to home - I owned and shot nothing but small bore target rifles and pistols.

    I now own and have a permit to carry a 9mm semi-automatic pistol, and have been professionally trained in when it can be deployed under the eyes of the law, and how to do so safely. I practice regularly at great expense, and as a way to train, I compete in scenario-based defensive shooting competitions. As an aside, many law enforcement officers compete as well, and I can tell you with all honesty that private citizens regularly out score the LEO's. I bring this up because there is a common misperception regarding training and ability.

    With all due respect, I really don't think you have even the most remote clue about the community of which I am a part. I own and carry precisely because I have a deep respect for life. I just happen to want to protect the lives of my innocent loved ones more than some agressor.

    All those that I talk to in the gun community have thought long and hard about taking another human's life in the course of stopping an aggressor. This is something we certainly do not take lightly.

    The only nightmare worse than taking an aggressive stranger's life in the course of defending my own or that of my family is not doing so.

    Sincerely,

    -Derik Andreoli



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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by DandLfam View Post

    If this woman thinks, as a nation, we value guns more than children, then we also value cars and other material items more than children.
    Well said.

    The last encounter I had that could have been deadly was some nubskull yakking on a cell phone while driving and ran me into a ditch on a country road while I'm out doing my job. We don't see the outrage and creating additional legislation restricting or banning vehicles and cell phones. Apparently Muffy doesn't understand that people do put material things before the love of children. They even put the love of stuff before love of God as well.
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  4. #19
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBSR View Post
    "They" aren't going to be satisfied, until we've surrendered them all. I say Hell NO! Sheep require protection, and without the proper equipment, that's going to be a difficult task.

    I'm not ready to concede the argument, and I'm disappointed that so many here are. It's like the first time you get hit in the mouth, you quit the fight. Never quit! Fight like you've never fought before, and keep getting up if you get knocked down.

    It's not the tool, it's the evil that picked up the tool. Only thing that will stop an evil man with a gun is a good man with a gun. Let's not lose sight of this.
    I fully understand the sentiment... I hate the sheepdog analogy... Unless you are a trained, professional, sheepdog.

    A sheepdog is purchased to protect the flock... A human sheepdog is HIRED to protect the flock, essentially the same.

    KBSR, how many letters have you written to your state representatives, to your President? How many times have you personally been involved... I don't mean signed an internet petition, or added your name to an email bomb, boilerplate "demand" for less infringement on your rights.

    Perhaps you have... I have no way of knowing. But many many people who are members of the NRA, and other associations... let the association do the work...

    And, now, I'm afraid it's too late.

    The antis see us as Gun Nuts. They just KNOW that we all want to go into schools and shoot kids. If they haven't gone that far in their whacko thinking... they at least think that we all have some defective child living at home who will steal our guns and commit mayhem. And, if they haven't gone that far in their unbalanced emotional response to "all things gun" then at the very least, they think we will all have our guns stolen from us and used to commit atrocities.

    They look on us... the way we look on them... "They don't have all the facts, they care more about guns than they do mental health, they all think they're macho Sheepdogs... gonna protect the world from evil... They don't have a clue, and they are irrational."
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    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  5. #20
    Distinguished Member Array dben002's Avatar
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    Had to add my 2 cents in a email also......do I expect a response....NOT !!

    After reading your article I can only assume you are one of the following:

    A. Delusional
    B. Un-informed
    C. Seeking publicity
    D. Stupid
    E. All of the above

    I have decided on E. There are evil people in this world that do evil things and it has nothing to do with guns. Guns are used as a tool. If Guns were not available other tools would be used to effect the same outcome. (Car and truck bombs driven into the building, gas, bio-hazards, etc..etc..etc....) There are many ways to kill many people without using guns of any sort.

    So many mass murders are committed in schools for a reason. That reason being they are soft targets (gun free zones). Evil people know they can go there and mass murder without reproach. There is no one or no thing there to stop them. They are free to kill as many as they wish until the police arrive to stop them or they kill themselves. They are ready to die when they undertake these types of activities.

    Had there been armed security at the school, lives would have been saved. In part because most bad (evil) people do not go to area's where they know they will be shot at and possibly killed. The purposely seek out these soft targets. Gun free zones are targets for people who have mental and social problems they can't deal with or have solutions for. Tim McVeigh did not use a gun. 9-11 terrorist did not use guns....etc..etc...etc....

    You wish to blame the gun.

    Therefore you fall in category E above.

    Don Benson
    Kernersville, NC.
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  6. #21
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    Not even worth reading or barely commenting. It's the world that dirt bags like her created why I carry.
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  7. #22
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    What is his position on the unborn children?
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  8. #23
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    Like others, I own firearms and carry one because I love people in general, and my family specifically (including my unborn daughter). I don't want evil to manifest itself at my expense or at the expense of my wife and daughter. I carry to protect life, not to take it, though sometimes you have to kill to save.
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  9. #24
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    Well IMO we have placed many things before our kids: on average 618 people are killed on bicycles per year, 52,000 plus injuries requiring medical assistance and many of those are kids. Vehicle accidents=on average 60,000 deaths per year, drownings 4,500 per year mostly in the 5-24 age group, electricutions = on average 2 deaths per day and on and on. Why is there not an uproar over the ones I mentioned.
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  10. #25
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    Here is the email I wrote her:

    Subject: I value my guns because I value my kids

    Hello Dr. Mufson,
    I just want to briefly share my story of gun ownership with you to
    help you understand where some of us are coming from.

    I live in a rural area. My wife is a family doctor that treats (among
    others) patients with substance abuse and addiction problems. Because
    she often has to turn down drug-seeking patients, which makes them
    angry, and in a small town it's easy for them to find out where we live,
    we purchased some guns for self-defense when we moved here.

    If we didn't have two beautiful little daughters that we love more than
    life itself, we probably wouldn't have bothered.

    Our worst nightmare is to have our house broken into or attacked because
    of anger toward my wife (or even because she's known to be a 'wealthy
    doctor' in a very impoverished area), and to have them hurt.

    I believe you're promulgating the idea that valuing the right to
    self-defense with firearms and valuing our children's lives is a
    dichotomy, but it is a false dichotomy.

    I would also like to point out to you that by two of the government's
    own studies, the assault weapons ban (which was in effect for 10 years)
    showed no measurable effect on anything relevant. It would be a useless
    encroachment that makes people feel good. As your own article pointed
    out, accidental deaths among children tend to happen with handguns.

    Because we are concerned for our children's safety, our guns are safely
    locked away unless being carried by one of us on our own person. I agree
    that something has to change in that regard. We can't force anyone to be
    responsible, even with laws, but perhaps some mandatory safety education
    such as that provided in NRA classes (they do cover safe storage and
    children) would give people the knowledge they need to be responsible
    gun owners.

    Thank you for your time if you have read this far.

    --Brock

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckusaret View Post
    Well IMO we have placed many things before our kids: on average 618 people are killed on bicycles per year, 52,000 plus injuries requiring medical assistance and many of those are kids. Vehicle accidents=on average 60,000 deaths per year, drownings 4,500 per year mostly in the 5-24 age group, electricutions = on average 2 deaths per day and on and on. Why is there not an uproar over the ones I mentioned.
    Disagree.

    IMO, none of those things is valuing them "above" human life.

    Stuff happens. Life is a contact sport. Nobody has any rational expectation of perfect risk-free living. Doesn't exist.

    That such things occur doesn't mean children are devalued, or anyone else for that matter.

    Trouble is, essentially that's how firearms in the hands of citizens is being portrayed by those screaming for erasure of the 2A: that somehow valuing life highly enough to be willing to guard our loved ones with our very lives somehow constitutes failure to value them.
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  12. #27
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    I sent her one myself but knowing her type, she's right, we are wrong, I doubt if anything said in the defense of gun ownership is going to change her Liberal mind. Not a slur at any of the Liberal minded people who belong to this forum, but it seems like they cling to the strange notion that banning or restriction something will result in less crime with said object and that will also take away our "obsession" with it as well.

    I wonder how she considers the history of Prohibition of alcohol and how well that worked? Probabay not and to her maybe not even a comparison. Once the anti mind is made up there is no turning back towards common sense.
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  13. #28
    Senior Member Array KBSR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    I fully understand the sentiment... I hate the sheepdog analogy... Unless you are a trained, professional, sheepdog.

    A sheepdog is purchased to protect the flock... A human sheepdog is HIRED to protect the flock, essentially the same.

    KBSR, how many letters have you written to your state representatives, to your President? How many times have you personally been involved... I don't mean signed an internet petition, or added your name to an email bomb, boilerplate "demand" for less infringement on your rights.

    Perhaps you have... I have no way of knowing. But many many people who are members of the NRA, and other associations... let the association do the work...

    And, now, I'm afraid it's too late.

    The antis see us as Gun Nuts. They just KNOW that we all want to go into schools and shoot kids. If they haven't gone that far in their whacko thinking... they at least think that we all have some defective child living at home who will steal our guns and commit mayhem. And, if they haven't gone that far in their unbalanced emotional response to "all things gun" then at the very least, they think we will all have our guns stolen from us and used to commit atrocities.

    They look on us... the way we look on them... "They don't have all the facts, they care more about guns than they do mental health, they all think they're macho Sheepdogs... gonna protect the world from evil... They don't have a clue, and they are irrational."
    Well Sir, we come from different life experiences I'd suggest. While you hate the sheepdog analogy, I embrace it. Had you bothered to check my profile on this board, you would have seen that I recently retired with over 31 years of service to our government, over 27 years of that as a Special Agent, Senior Special Agent, and later a Supervisory Special Agent. I have trained with some of the best in the business, have been tested in the real world, and have been found more than competent. I've been an active member and supervisor of Special Response Teams or SRT, the equivalent of police department and sheriff department SWAT teams, and I'm a NRA certified police instructor in pistol, shotgun, and MP5 submachine gun.

    Having said all of that, I don't agree with you that everyone must have my skill set and experience level to possess the warriors spirit or the willingness to engage the threat. Any man or woman, who trains seriously, and who is properly equipped, can run with me to the sound of the guns. It's OK if you don't want to, but I know many that choose to do so. They shouldn't disrespect you for choosing to flee, anymore than you should them for reacting the way they do.

    I do write letters, and make telephone calls to my U.S. Senators and my one Congressman, as recent as this week actually. I also happen to be on first name basis with a current U.S. Senator (not from my state), because he was a United States Attorney prosecuting cases for me, back in the day, if you will, and we have a mutual respect for each other.

    I won't waste my energy writing to the current occupant of the White House. I wrote a letter one time to the President, and I think it was William Jefferson Clinton. The subject of my letter was my disgust with his administration ignoring the advice of the Joint Chiefs of Staff as it pertains to gays in the military. I received a form letter thanking me for my support, clearly letting me know that my letter wasn't even read. LOL

    You see, as a retired law enforcement officer, I don't need to worry about the administration (this or any other) taking my guns. I have credentials, thanks to LEOSA to carry concealed in 50 states, without any further paperwork, or CCW's. I object to gun control, any form, as an attempt to restrict the ability of law abiding citizens to protect themselves and their loved ones. Again, a gun is an inanimate object that can do no good, or any harm, left alone. I'll continue to argue this case, as long as necessary. Be safe.
    " But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself... Baa." Col. Dave Grossman on Sheep and Sheepdogs.

  14. #29
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    Of course I love my children and grandchildren, why else would I want to give them all my guns when I leave this dangerous world?
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  15. #30
    Distinguished Member Array chuckusaret's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    Of course I love my children and grandchildren, why else would I want to give them all my guns when I leave this dangerous world?
    For the past few years I have opened my safe every November after our thanksgiving dinner and allowed each of my four adult kids to draw a number from a hat and take one gun each in order of the number drawn, with the exception of my EDC and BUG. Hopefully I will only have three weapons when I die, EDC, BUG and a shotgun. Let the four fight over them. LOL
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