Opinion Piece : Do We Value Guns More Than Children?

This is a discussion on Opinion Piece : Do We Value Guns More Than Children? within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by chuckusaret For the past few years I have opened my safe every November after our thanksgiving dinner and allowed each of my ...

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Thread: Opinion Piece : Do We Value Guns More Than Children?

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array GeorgiaDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckusaret View Post
    For the past few years I have opened my safe every November after our thanksgiving dinner and allowed each of my four adult kids to draw a number from a hat and take one gun each in order of the number drawn, with the exception of my EDC and BUG. Hopefully I will only have three weapons when I die, EDC, BUG and a shotgun. Let the four fight over them. LOL
    Can I visit next Thanksgiving??
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    "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." - Ephesians 2:8-9

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  3. #32
    VIP Member Array JoJoGunn's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by chuckusaret

    For the past few years I have opened my safe every November after our thanksgiving dinner and allowed each of my four adult kids to draw a number from a hat and take one gun each in order of the number drawn, with the exception of my EDC and BUG. Hopefully I will only have three weapons when I die, EDC, BUG and a shotgun. Let the four fight over them. LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgiaDawg View Post
    Can I visit next Thanksgiving??
    Diane Mufson won't be joining you, I can assure that.
    "A Smith & Wesson always beats 4 aces!"

    The Man Prayer. "Im a man, I can change, if I have to.....I guess!" ~ Red Green

  4. #33
    Distinguished Member Array chuckusaret's Avatar
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    Sure GeorgiaDawg come on down. It sure beats trying to divide up the guns in my will. This way I also get to see the mindset of each when it comes to guns. My son takes the Military surplus and the three girls have always taken the small handguns and the antiques. The selection is getting to be rather limited after threes years or so, mostly rifles, shotguns and large handguns but enough to last at least five more years, if I live that long.

    Mufson: just the name makes me place her in the nut doctor category and I believe she would not fit in at my dinner table. Whoops, the wife's dinner table.
    US Army 1953-1977

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  5. #34
    VIP Member Array 1MoreGoodGuy's Avatar
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    Not even going to waste my time reading that. Instead, I'll just give a simple response.

    I value all life (this includes but is not limited to children) and I value freedom.

    A gun is a tool which can help me to preserve both life and freedom from the attacks of evil people.

    If you take away my tool, then it is you who values evil people more than you value life and freedom.
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    1MoreGoodGuy
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    Behave Like Someone Who is Determined to be FREE!

  6. #35
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1MoreGoodGuy View Post
    I value all life (this includes but is not limited to children) and I value freedom.
    And it's important for all to recognize that freedom is indeed what helps ensure people have the means of defending their very lives. Surest way to dramatically harm a people's ability to survive threats is to forcibly deprive them of effective means to do so. In a very real sense, one begets the other.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  7. #36
    VIP Member Array BigJon10125's Avatar
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    In short NO. That being said my interest in firearms become more significant with my becoming a father. The premier purpose of my guns is to protect my family. Their secondary purpose is sport, fun, target shooting. I have guns for my children not in spite of them. They are an integral part of my life. If the Almighty asked I would take my kids every time. I would take others' kids every time. But the two are mutually exclusive. It is not either, or.
    BigJon


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  8. #37
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBSR View Post
    Well Sir, we come from different life experiences I'd suggest. While you hate the sheepdog analogy, I embrace it. Had you bothered to check my profile on this board, you would have seen that I recently retired with over 31 years of service to our government, over 27 years of that as a Special Agent, Senior Special Agent, and later a Supervisory Special Agent. I have trained with some of the best in the business, have been tested in the real world, and have been found more than competent. I've been an active member and supervisor of Special Response Teams or SRT, the equivalent of police department and sheriff department SWAT teams, and I'm a NRA certified police instructor in pistol, shotgun, and MP5 submachine gun.

    Having said all of that, I don't agree with you that everyone must have my skill set and experience level to possess the warriors spirit or the willingness to engage the threat. Any man or woman, who trains seriously, and who is properly equipped, can run with me to the sound of the guns. It's OK if you don't want to, but I know many that choose to do so. They shouldn't disrespect you for choosing to flee, anymore than you should them for reacting the way they do.

    I do write letters, and make telephone calls to my U.S. Senators and my one Congressman, as recent as this week actually. I also happen to be on first name basis with a current U.S. Senator (not from my state), because he was a United States Attorney prosecuting cases for me, back in the day, if you will, and we have a mutual respect for each other.

    I won't waste my energy writing to the current occupant of the White House. I wrote a letter one time to the President, and I think it was William Jefferson Clinton. The subject of my letter was my disgust with his administration ignoring the advice of the Joint Chiefs of Staff as it pertains to gays in the military. I received a form letter thanking me for my support, clearly letting me know that my letter wasn't even read. LOL

    You see, as a retired law enforcement officer, I don't need to worry about the administration (this or any other) taking my guns. I have credentials, thanks to LEOSA to carry concealed in 50 states, without any further paperwork, or CCW's. I object to gun control, any form, as an attempt to restrict the ability of law abiding citizens to protect themselves and their loved ones. Again, a gun is an inanimate object that can do no good, or any harm, left alone. I'll continue to argue this case, as long as necessary. Be safe.
    Thank you for your candid response... I still maintain that you were a "hired/paid for" sheepdog, and are now retired from that position... and for that, I offer a sincere thanks for your service. I do not as a practice, check the profiles of those on the forum before posting a response to what they say. I figure they all put their pants on the same way I do, one leg at a time. And that, while our views may differ in substance and/or degree...we are for the most part, on the same side.

    My point is this:
    A great majority of those who have permits to carry concealed, don't with any frequency.
    Most of those don't train for proficiency.
    Leaving a very few who actually carry with frequency, and fewer yet who train for proficiency.
    Some who carry view themselves as "Sheepdogs" without the requisite training and/or real life experience (or both).
    Some of them are the real life personification of "Gecko45."

    For the most part, those of us who cherish the second amendment, exercise our rights thereunder, and promulgate the active use of those rights by everyone; are viewed by the antis as Wannabe Rambos.

    They view us with the same lens most of us view Schumer, Bloomberg, Feinstiein, et.al.

    Just as all gays (in the military or not) are not represented by those we have seen marching in gay pride parades... neither side in our argument is truly represented by the extreme factions of either.

    We can say that, because of the election recently completed, we are doomed to a socialist, gun grabbing regime of despotic leaders who will take away our individual rights and attempt to make us all part of "the collective."

    But the fact is... that there has been a terrible tragedy, guns were used, and those who are supposed to represent our "measured, realistic, practical" response have remained utterly and completely silent. The reason being given is to avoid "standing in the blood of the victims." Unfortunately for us, no matter how reasonable that reason may be, those opposed to our stance had no qualms about wading in that blood, and pointing the finger at ALL of US. An emotional picture to be sure. And we did not respond. This will cost us, dearly. We did not respond, we did not show up, we are going to lose by default.

    How much we lose depends on what we volunteer to give up... And that may not be enough.
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    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  9. #38
    Senior Member Array zamboni's Avatar
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    Value guns over children??? What kind of idiot could even scarcely fathom the idea of even asking such an asinine question????

    I would eat glass for my children, your children, and anyone else-s children if it was in anyway necessary to protect them, their life, or/and their personal safety, from anything!

    And I don't limit that to just children. Adult are also included.

    How could any sane humane human-being, with any compassion or benevolence, answer any different?

    Where do all these trolls come from? Only one way to deal with them.....to get an idea, after watching the first few moments fast forward to 1:34


  10. #39
    Member Array RandyatOBX's Avatar
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    Guns vs. children...........this country needs to wake up! Many people are blind.
    I fully believe these atrocities are caused by the age in which we live. When I attended high school in the early 70's it was not uncommon to see rifles and shotguns in the windows of trucks owned by students. After school was out we would hunt in the surrounding woods, be it squirrel or deer. I remember in grade school, our teacher brought different caliber of bullets to school to show us how to measure (this had every boys attention plus quite a few of the girls).
    When I and those of my generation were growing up we had no extremely realistic and horribly violent videos games (which children today spend hours playing), we didn’t have super violent, gory and ultra graphic (to the point of stupidity), movies like the Expendables, Rambo plus hundreds more to twist the viewers minds. Our “entertainment” industries have went beyond decency. Is it any wonder that a child or person with mental issues are drug down further, to the breaking point?
    When I was young, nothing like this would have crossed our minds, games were cards, horseshoes, yes, even shooting sports like hunting, empty cans etc., movies and shows were Bonanza, Gunsmoke and movies never seemed to get any more violent than John Wayne.
    The fault is with parents, (every parent does believe their children are angels, capable of doing no evil) and our mental health system and those professionals working within it. Also the entertainment industry needs to be very heavily regulated. These are the “control” issues not “gun” control, case in point, the US military have the most sophisticated weapons in the world include extended ammo capacity weapons that are unimaginable BUT a terrorist with 20lbs of home made explosives will create more deadly consequences and death as proven in our middle east conflicts. Take guns away but leave the society we have and these horrible acts will continue with something other than guns.
    NOTE; Our government cannot control illegal drugs, immigrants etc. how are they going to control the illegal gun trade specifically when the Obama administration sent thousands (many fully automatic) guns to Mexico. If we could track each one of those guns I bet the atrocities by this administration would be unequaled by anything committed so far in our country.
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  11. #40
    Member Array rmarino14's Avatar
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    When I heard about the killings last Friday morning it made me very sad. So no I don't value guns more then a innocent person's (child or adult) life. What I do value is the right to defend myself, loved ones, and anyone else life if in that situation.

    The law abiding gun owner isn't the problem and they should stop focusing on us. What they need to focus on is how to help the mentally ill. Until they figure out how to help them they need to make all these gun-free zones they made safe.
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  12. #41
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmarino14 View Post
    When I heard about the killings last Friday morning it made me very sad. So no I don't value guns more then a innocent person's (child or adult) life. What I do value is the right to defend myself, loved ones, and anyone else life if in that situation.
    If only we all (each of us, each adult capable of bearing arms, everywhere) had been armed and determined to resist such a violent intruder at such a place, we'd not be having such discussions now. THAT extreme determination to live and effect the defense of those we most love is what must spread like a brush fire to every single corner of our society. Anything else is only words. And just saying "No" in the face of an upraised knife is no defense at all. The victimized dead know this better than anyone.
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    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  13. #42
    VIP Member Array mprp's Avatar
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    Do I value guns more than children?

    Let me answer that question the best I can. I have 26 guns protecting 4 kids.
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    Vietnam Vets, WELCOME HOME

    Crossman 760 BB/Pellet, Daisy Red Ryder, Crossman Wrist Rocket, 14 Steak Knives, 3 Fillet Knives, Rolling Pin-14", Various Hunting Knives, 2 Baseball Bats, 3 Big Dogs and a big American Flag flying in the yard. I have no firearms; Try the next house.

  14. #43
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    I value identifying threats early, guarding against threats, and having the means of stopping threats ... specifically because I DO value the lives of my loved ones and those worthy of being saved from predation.

    Anything else is just "talk."
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    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  15. #44
    Distinguished Member Array DefConGun's Avatar
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    Do we value guns more than children?

    Sure we do, we also want dirty air, dirty water, deny old people medication and force them to eat cat food.

    Typical leftist demagoguery. Its a false premise leading to an invalid dichotomy. The value we place on guns has nothing to do with the value we place on children. Out of an attempt to avoid political speech, I'll refrain from making some comments pertaining to another group of Americans that are disenfranchised at an abysmally larger rate than the poor victims in CT encountered.
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  16. #45
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Somebody's children are killing people.

    I say restrict their children, not our weapons.

    Examine how we are creating more (?) of these losers or mentally ill people. Learn how to identify them. Find out how to help them before they lash out.

    Only this ^^^ will stop this form of violence, not restricting guns.
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    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

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