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Bought a Gun and Killed Herself in Parking Lot of Gun Store

This is a discussion on Bought a Gun and Killed Herself in Parking Lot of Gun Store within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by Hopyard There is nothing to stop gun dealers from coming to a deal amongst themselves that they won't sell to folks who ...

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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    There is nothing to stop gun dealers from coming to a deal amongst themselves that they won't sell to folks who have had
    zero training. Yes, there are lots of folks who own guns with zero training, and that cat is out of the bag, but we can fix things
    going forward--- and it would be a revenue stream for the LGS as well. The manufacturers could get behind a movement to
    do something like the C card. It was the SCUBA manufacturers and the YMCA that initiated that concept for diving gear.

    Range owners could also easily choose to put some minimum training requirement on entry. The devil of course is in the details.
    What standards. With SCUBA it is well, probably won't drown or get the bends or an embolism. The card comes with after a dive test swim in open water.

    There is no reason short of will and desire why something similar couldn't be instituted for new gun buyers; no "C" card, no sale.
    Legally that is no different than no shoes, no shirt, no service.

    Again, the beauty of such an arrangement is that government could be and would be cut completely out of the loop. Hence
    no constitutional or legal issues.
    There you go injecting logic and reason into the debate! Who's to say that even with a "C" card for firearms in place, this woman would not have gone through the training and ended up shooting herself anyway?

    The fact that she drove to the gun store, waiting for the BG check, finally purchased the firearm and then shot herself shows serious intent, IF this turns out to be a suicide and not an accidental discharge.
    It is quite possible that she simply loaded the gun, attempted to put it away, and accidentally shot herself in the process.

    Even highly experienced gunsmiths can kill themselves accidentally. My uncle was playing poker and drinking heavily with a group of gunsmith friends about 25 years ago, one of them picked up what he believed was an un-loaded pistol, put it to his head, and jokingly pulled the trigger. Unfortunately, the gun WAS loaded and my uncle and his other friends had to witness one of their best friends splatter his brains all over the kitchen. These guys were highly experienced gunsmiths, that did not stop one of them from having an AD.
    Truth is treason in an empire of lies - Ron Paul
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  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadow247 View Post
    There you go injecting logic and reason into the debate! Who's to say that even with a "C" card for firearms in place, this woman would not have gone through the training and ended up shooting herself anyway?

    The fact that she drove to the gun store, waiting for the BG check, finally purchased the firearm and then shot herself shows serious intent, IF this turns out to be a suicide and not an accidental discharge.
    It is quite possible that she simply loaded the gun, attempted to put it away, and accidentally shot herself in the process.

    Even highly experienced gunsmiths can kill themselves accidentally. My uncle was playing poker and drinking heavily with a group of gunsmith friends about 25 years ago, one of them picked up what he believed was an un-loaded pistol, put it to his head, and jokingly pulled the trigger. Unfortunately, the gun WAS loaded and my uncle and his other friends had to witness one of their best friends splatter his brains all over the kitchen. These guys were highly experienced gunsmiths, that did not stop one of them from having an AD.
    There is no such thing as a perfect fix for these problems but that doesn't mean there aren't things that haven't been tried.
    Yup, red face here, I had one whopper of a ND at the range 2 weeks ago; luckily only my ego got harmed. That these things
    can and do happen doesn't mean we can't try to prevent them.

    We don't know for certain if this lady's death was a suicide or a ND due to lack of any and all training. If the latter, that is a fixable problem, at least to some degree. And if the former, that too is fixable to some degree with a waiting period.

    Now, what I said above was that training and waiting are things the LGS and gun industry can easily impose on themselves with ZERO mandate from Uncle, ZERO interference from any part of The State. It just takes will power. Will such a step stop all NDs? No. Will it stop all suicides? No. But some. More importantly doing something along these lines would be a huge
    public relations victory for the folks in the gun business and for responsible gun owners. It would show Uncle and the states
    that we are very interested in promoting safety, knowledge of safe handling, and we don't need them to pass more laws 'cause
    they aren't needed.

    As for what happened to your uncle's friend, they forgot the rules. They forgot that booze and bullets don't mix and that guns are always loaded. Some folk never ever even hear these rules. That has to stop.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  3. #48
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    Updated story here: Harriet Deison: Pastor's wife, 65, buys pistol from gun shop and shoots herself dead in the parking lot | GA Daily News

    Her death has been ruled a suicide. Witnesses stated they heard 2 gun shots.
    Regards,
    1MoreGoodGuy
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  4. #49
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    My ex-wife's grandfather, hung himself inside of a barn.... when he found out his wife had cancer. He left a note he could not bear to watch her deteriorate and die , with no obvious regard for assisting her, etc. So, we going to put a 5 day waiting period and buying rope ? .... and ... making everyone tear down their barns ?

    the ironic part of this one was, 2 months later..... they determined that his wife had been misdiagnosed and didn't have cancer. She lived another nearly 25 yrs. She was very adamant before her death, that she didn't want to be buried anywhere near him.
    I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
    Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."

  5. #50
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    years ago when I was selling guns at a sporting goods store part time, I sold a gun to a young father. I remember him as being a decent guy with absolutely no outward signs that suicide was his intention.
    He filled out the paperwork, and came back after the three day Brady waiting period and picked up his new revolver.....
    and walked to his car, loaded it and put a bullet in the roof of his mouth. I watched the ambulances load his body onto the stretcher....leaving a wife and three kids behind. I couldn't work the gun counter
    for a while after that....it does something to you.....none of it good.

    so much for the waiting period. If a person is intent on taking their own life, they will do so one way or the other. The instrument they use to do the job is immaterial.
    OldVet likes this.
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    [QUOTE=Eagleks;2524085]My ex-wife's grandfather, hung himself inside of a barn.... when he found out his wife had cancer. He left a note he could not bear to watch her deteriorate and die , with no obvious regard for assisting her, etc. So, we going to put a 5 day waiting period and buying rope ? .... and ... making everyone tear down their barns ?

    the ironic part of this one was, 2 months later..... they determined that his wife had been misdiagnosed and didn't have cancer. She lived another nearly 25 yrs. She was very adamant before her death, that she didn't want to be buried anywhere near him.[/QUOTE]

    Completely understandable! How horrific for your whole family.
    It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

    http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown...eaves%20office

  7. #52
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    [QUOTE=Eagleks;2524085]My ex-wife's grandfather, hung himself inside of a barn.... when he found out his wife had cancer. He left a note he could not bear to watch her deteriorate and die , with no obvious regard for assisting her, etc. So, we going to put a 5 day waiting period and buying rope ? .... and ... making everyone tear down their barns ?

    the ironic part of this one was, 2 months later..... they determined that his wife had been misdiagnosed and didn't have cancer. She lived another nearly 25 yrs. She was very adamant before her death, that she didn't want to be buried anywhere near him.[/QUOTE]

    Completely understandable! How horrific for your whole family.
    It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

    http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown...eaves%20office

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by zonker1986 View Post
    years ago when I was selling guns at a sporting goods store part time, I sold a gun to a young father. I remember him as being a decent guy with absolutely no outward signs that suicide was his intention.
    He filled out the paperwork, and came back after the three day Brady waiting period and picked up his new revolver.....
    and walked to his car, loaded it and put a bullet in the roof of his mouth. I watched the ambulances load his body onto the stretcher....leaving a wife and three kids behind. I couldn't work the gun counter
    for a while after that....it does something to you.....none of it good.

    so much for the waiting period. If a person is intent on taking their own life, they will do so one way or the other. The instrument they use to do the job is immaterial.
    Again, just because something doesn't work or help in some instances, doesn't mean it can't make a big difference
    across very many users. Speed limits don't stop all accidents, but they certainly lower the number and the
    severity of accidents which would occur in their absence.

    Voluntary constraints by the gun industry could go a long way to thwart government intervention and would
    beat the heck out of sitting back and waiting for the brick to fall on our heads.
    OldVet, OldVet and CanuckQue like this.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  9. #54
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    "...after witnesses heard two shots and smoke coming out of the vehicle."

    Either shot bought a black powder gun or Tula ammo. And Two shots? Something ain't right here.
    Hopyard likes this.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Voluntary constraints by the gun industry could go a long way to thwart government intervention and would
    beat the heck out of sitting back and waiting for the brick to fall on our heads.
    Hopy, I understand your thinking on this and in a reasonable political climate, I would agree. However, I can also argue the "give them and inch and they'll take a mile" rule. For the anti gun group...when has enough ever been enough? Look at all the gun laws on the books now, look at the stringent rules in places like Illinois and Maryland among others.

    You can effectively eat a whole hog one nibble at a time was well as one giant gulp. Either way, it's gone.
    msgt/ret and 1MoreGoodGuy like this.
    It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

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  11. #56
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    This is not a common occurrence.

    You can't stop a person from committing suicide if you are unaware that they want to commit suicide...they will find a way to end their life. This person chose to go purchase a gun and use the new gun despite there being several other ways she could have ended her life that wouldn't have taken as long as it did, been as complicated or as expensive.

    With there being so many other easier options that were available to her, you have to wonder why she chose to go through all the steps she went through to purchase a new gun. Was her method of suicide her version of a "suicide note"? Was this the message she wanted to leave behind?
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  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeanlouise View Post
    Hopy, I understand your thinking on this and in a reasonable political climate, I would agree. However, I can also argue the "give them and inch and they'll take a mile" rule. For the anti gun group...when has enough ever been enough? Look at all the gun laws on the books now, look at the stringent rules in places like Illinois and Maryland among others.

    You can effectively eat a whole hog one nibble at a time was well as one giant gulp. Either way, it's gone.
    Well what we are presently doing is going to end badly for us. "Voluntary" but real and meaningful private enterprise certification
    programs* would show a level of responsibility by the industry that seems absent now, and would take the wind out of
    the sails of the more fanatical anti-s. Would it work perfectly, No. Would it inconvenience a few folks? Maybe.
    But what I suggested would address safety training and standards, and would be outside of government.

    For parallel programs, not only the diver's C card, but the Hunter Safety programs and their certificates being needed
    to get a hunting license are another example of letting private folks deal with the certification.

    If we don't do something to get out ahead of the curve we are behind on now, we'll regret our collective inaction.

    I hope some of the NRA and industry folks are paying attention to these words, because it won't take more than another
    tragedy or two for the wrath of the rest of the population to crack down on us; and the rebellious can spout their mantra
    till the cows come home. We all know that the law will be obeyed and we will be the ones forced to obey it-- not the nuts and not
    the bad guys.
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    *Here in TX we have a state mandated CHL course. In other places such as CT the state requires
    the NRA course. What would be better in the long run for all of us? Fifty individual state requirements or
    a nationwide certification program that could be a model of responsible gun sales and gun ownership? I could even imagine
    high cap and .223 remaining legal if the various concerned governmental entities could be shown that
    folks get some sort of certificate. It is a way of weeding the nuts out to some extent as the instructors will pick up
    the vibes from the coo coo crowd. And done voluntarily it sidesteps all of the constitutional issues.

    I don't a right to go SCUBA diving (it ain't in the constitution) but the states pretty much stay the heck out of regulating
    this potentially deadly sport. They could. Why don't they? Because there are voluntary certifications and no responsible dive company will fill your tank if you lack that C card.

    I'm unfamiliar with Sky Diving, but I imagine those in that sport are also certified in some fashion so their players
    don't become pancakes.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

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    I fail to see how any of that will prevent evil people from doing evil things and I fail to see how it will prevent people from committing suicide.
    Regards,
    1MoreGoodGuy
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  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1MoreGoodGuy View Post
    I fail to see how any of that will prevent evil people from doing evil things and I fail to see how it will prevent people from committing suicide.
    Here's what it would do: 1) assure some minimum level of safety knowledge and ability 2) give the instructor a
    chance to eye ball the folks in the classes and there would be an opportunity to maybe side line them
    3) slow things down enough that the suicidal might change their minds or get help; or just maybe being with other humans
    and doing stuff with others in a class environment would be beneficial

    4) And this is the most important--- even if it doesn't help a thing, it would greatly improve the image of gun owners and the
    gun industry, perhaps enough to derail confiscatory laws or some of the more goofy ideas that float around.

    If I were an individual LGS owner I could certainly try to get folks into a class and impose a waiting period, but I'd go broke
    as business would simply go elsewhere. If the private industry folks would band together and agree on some measures
    they all adhere to, as with SCUBA (and I know a few cheat, but most don't) it might work. At least the effort would show
    a degree of caring that is often absent from the words of the most ardent, and a private solution entirely bypasses constitutional
    issues.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Here's what it would do: 1) assure some minimum level of safety knowledge and ability 2) give the instructor a
    chance to eye ball the folks in the classes and there would be an opportunity to maybe side line them
    3) slow things down enough that the suicidal might change their minds or get help; or just maybe being with other humans
    and doing stuff with others in a class environment would be beneficial

    4) And this is the most important--- even if it doesn't help a thing, it would greatly improve the image of gun owners and the
    gun industry, perhaps enough to derail confiscatory laws or some of the more goofy ideas that float around.

    If I were an individual LGS owner I could certainly try to get folks into a class and impose a waiting period, but I'd go broke
    as business would simply go elsewhere. If the private industry folks would band together and agree on some measures
    they all adhere to, as with SCUBA (and I know a few cheat, but most don't) it might work. At least the effort would show
    a degree of caring that is often absent from the words of the most ardent, and a private solution entirely bypasses constitutional
    issues.
    It still won't prevent evil people from doing evil things. They don't follow laws and they don't follow rules.

    What you are suggesting won't stop a person who is intent on taking their own life. If you put up a barricade, they will choose another path or hide their intentions even deeper. If for some reason they feel that they must use a gun to commit suicide, they will either purchase it legally, purchase it illegally, or steal it...like the CT shooter did.
    Regards,
    1MoreGoodGuy
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