Could janitors be one school's line of defense?

This is a discussion on Could janitors be one school's line of defense? within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; The armed SO's in our schools have only 1 priority ... to protect the kids. That's it. We think anything else is a distraction. However, ...

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  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    The armed SO's in our schools have only 1 priority ... to protect the kids. That's it. We think anything else is a distraction. However, some discussion is going on about allowing teachers with a CC license, or any other school personnel, to carry at school. In our school district , they are NOT posted and any CCH can carry legally in any non-posted school. So, this is a "policy" decision by the School board, not a legal one.
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  3. #17
    New Member Array fastsled's Avatar
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    Interesting question, I have worked for a public school system for 28 yrs. I am the head Groundsman. In the winter months I am the school locksmith. I have a college degree. I also have my ccw. I wish my school would let me carry during work hours. My superindendant and board are very much against guns. Our system like many others have many flaws, open doors, unchecked visitors. During the day while most of the teachers are in their classrooms, I am in the hallways, on the fields, or in the parking lots. While I can't see everything, I see a lot! Just my .2cents

  4. #18
    Senior Member Array VBVAGUY's Avatar
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    I met a guy at Walmart that is an retired ex-marine gunny that works at one of the local schools systems as a maintainence engineer and he told me that he wishes that he was allowed to carry so that he can protect the kids if he needed to. God Bless

  5. #19
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    Could janitors be one school's line of defense?

    I like what Utah is doing, i'll bet there are no mass shootings in their schools.


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  6. #20
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    I think in America we are too accustomed to an illusion of safety. One of the things that struck me when I traveled to Brazil was just about every dwelling had a stone/concrete wall with either razor wire or broken glass at the top. Here we have open streets and the most common barrier is chain link fence or wooden pickets. We want to feel safe so we make our facilities look as if nothing ever happens. I agree it all depends on the individual but if they are qualified then why not? But we also need to do more to make our facilities actually safe than just a cozy feeling when we see them from the outside.

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastsled View Post
    My superindendant and board are very much against guns. Our system like many others have many flaws, open doors, unchecked visitors.
    Ostensibly, such folks are for protecting the kids. Yet because one easy-to-implement, low-cost element of the path to solving the problem of school security involves armed/capable protection staff having firearms and other weaponry to do it, it's off the table as a discussion item. I just don't get it.

    It's much like this whole White House charade over "having a conversation" about possible options. All too often, such solutions have far too much head-in-sand as part of the proposals. Sad, and frightfully costly in terms of continuing loss of life and damaging people psychologically from the trauma of having to go through such things.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
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  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastsled View Post
    Interesting question, I have worked for a public school system for 28 yrs. I am the head Groundsman. In the winter months I am the school locksmith. I have a college degree. I also have my ccw. I wish my school would let me carry during work hours. My superindendant and board are very much against guns. Our system like many others have many flaws, open doors, unchecked visitors. During the day while most of the teachers are in their classrooms, I am in the hallways, on the fields, or in the parking lots. While I can't see everything, I see a lot! Just my .2cents
    I do not know if the Governor has addressed it yet or not, but both houses of the Michigan state legislature recently passed a bill to allow school staff or faculty to carry concealed at school. Last I heard, it was just waiting for the Governor's signature. So hopefully, in your state, it will get the Governor's signature and be allowed soon.
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  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    Schools typically have multiple entrys/exits for emergency purposes (fire and such), so other than having door that open from the inside only, it's tough to "seal off" an entire school. most have chainlink fences around them, but they mainly to keep the kids from wandering off during recess and to herd visitors toward the entrance. Someone with ill intent could easily climb over them. It's really tough to make a school "BG proof."
    If the laws & courts were merciless towards real BGs, everyplace would be a lot safer.

  10. #24
    New Member Array fastsled's Avatar
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    Bark'n Our governor did NOT sign the bill.

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    I like the idea of letting school employees carry a lot more than building fences, doors and entries that make the school a prison. I don't want my kids having to learn in that type of environment.

    Truthfully, the school just needs enough competent chl holders on campus to react quickly to a problem. Further training would be a good idea but I don't think it has to be burdensome. The goal is to make schools an unattractive place to shoot up, not make them into forts.

    Someone mentioned that the us has an illusion of security, and that other places have razor wire, walls, bars on windows, etc. the reason that we generally enjoy this level of security in the us is because we had several centuries of conditioning where outlaws knew that if they tried something they would likely get shot at, and if they got away with it, the local sheriff would really hunt them down and hang them. It's no surprise that when that deterrence is removed, people start acting like savages again.

    I don't want bars on my windows or scanners at my kids school. I just want good people to be able to step up and be able to protect themselves and the kids they are entrusted with.

  12. #26
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastsled View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    ... both houses of the Michigan state legislature recently passed a bill to allow school staff or faculty to carry concealed at school. Last I heard, it was just waiting for the Governor's signature.
    Bark'n Our governor did NOT sign the bill.
    In which case, if there's enough support for it in the legislature, the legislature can ram it through in spite of the governor, yes?? One person can't block the whole shebang.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
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  13. #27
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    Something needs to be done to eliminate the killing zones that school have suddenly become. We need to have competent, trained and willing personnel to carry a gun and if they must use it, then they have to be highly trained.

    It could be the janitor, teacher, principal, armed guard or whatever. Something needs to be done to eliminate the victim selection zone of shooters.

    There could be mistakes and under pressure to take out an armed shooter, some innocent kids might get hit by stray rounds if that person is not good at the job.

    But, again I say we need to do something. Talking about it while some nutcase is festering and planning, and another shooting could be on the horizon. That is not acceptable.
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  14. #28
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoJoGunn View Post
    Something needs to be done to eliminate the killing zones that school have suddenly become.
    Clue: we've always been that, a society with high-value "group" spots that are almost completely unprotected.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  15. #29
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    Having kids in school, I have given this much thought. I don't like the idea of a uniformed officer - with our statewide budget problems, there is no way we could afford it. Besides, the uniformed guy is the first target. I would like to see well trained and capable school personnel carrying. The key is to develop a deterrent, since the cowards want soft, high value targets. If word gets out one or more people at each school are carrying, that's a deterrent. Ongoing training would be a must, and yes, I would be happy to help pay for it.

  16. #30
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    So you're placing teachers below LEOs on the value scale as to who gets shot at first? If something were to happen and an officer is shot, another takes his place tomorrow. If a teacher gets shot, the students lose a guard and their teacher. you're willing to pay for the teachers' training, why not pay for trained officers? The logic escapes me.
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