Man shoots and kills another man for pulling into his drive way

This is a discussion on Man shoots and kills another man for pulling into his drive way within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by Hopyard Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm not seeing where it says the guy shot has a record in either of the ...

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Thread: Man shoots and kills another man for pulling into his drive way

  1. #16
    Member Array nkanofolives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm not seeing where it says the guy shot has a record in either of the
    two links provided above.

    I'm inclined to believe that the shooter is telling the truth that he feared for his life for some reason, but
    fear by itself --unsubstantiated--- doesn't count. He used very poor judgment. Could easily have stayed
    inside to watch the developments.

    I don't exactly believe the story that they were lead to the wrong house by GPS. It happens, but that
    can probably be verified by examining the machine. Also, that story implies they were going
    to a place they'd not been before, a place they wouldn't recognize. Why?

    I'm of the opinion the old boy's instinct was right about those young people but his response
    was utterly wrong.

    Another example of why training is important.


    To me, it is another example of why people need not be so darn paranoid and trigger happy.

    As for the GPS, perhaps they were using Apple Maps?
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  3. #17
    Member Array minimalbrat's Avatar
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    Maybe we don't have the whole story. Was the older man in fear of his life? I don't see where the article tells us anyone was in his home. Why didn't he stay inside and call the police. Stay ready with his gun for personal defense?

    Please, if I am going to a friends house, I don't know exactly where it is so I have to use my tom tom, and I pull into your drive and sit a few min to figure out what I am going to do. DON'T SHOOT ME.
    Our House Is Protected By The Good Lord And A gun. You Might Meet Both Of Them If You Show Up Inside My House Uninvited.

  4. #18
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    No matter WHAT the intent of the people in the car...this guy was totally WRONG.

    He should have gotten his weapon....stayed inside....locked his doors and have the wife call the police. THEN if they broke in he would be on firm ground for the shooting.

    In our home there would have been TWO armed home owners. We could have dropped them as they walked through the door.

    This guy was WRONG no matter how you "flavor" it.

    I don't see him having freedom for the rest of his natural life. Do you see ANY reason it was justified?? Enlighten me if you do...because I see NONE.

    It is more that just a matter of self defense of home and life....it is also a matter of defending yourself in court and in the eyes of the law.
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  5. #19
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    I think the old man screwed up. He either screwed up totally by making a mistake or he screwed up by over reacting to a situation that may have been indeed a threat. Let me explain. The kids are providing way too much information that can easily be verified by the police. Such as what their plans were. They can also look at the address on the GPS and the address for the "friends" house they were looking for. If the GPS indeed does take them to that house or something like that (we all know how infallible GPS's ares right) then the old man should be locked up for life.
    As far as why it took so long for the guys to back up and get out of the driveway? Sounds like they pulled in, realized it was the wrong address (I assume when they saw the old man) and then started to back up. It was at night and they would not be rushing to get out. Old man comes out and fires the gun.

    If indeed the kids were up to no good (which will be hard to prove if they never got out of the vehicle) then the old man is screwed. I don't see how you can use deadly force on a vehicle that is backing up or if the occupants are still in the vehicle.

    Just my take on it.
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  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by nkanofolives View Post
    But it is still illegal (and dumb) to just start "poppin' caps" without being provoked. I mean look, they did not even get out of their car.
    No doubt. But you are assuming the factual accuracy regarding provocation and remaining in the vehicle.

    It likely was a bad shoot, but it was written up with the usual assumption that the guy that shot is the bad guy.
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  7. #21
    Member Array nkanofolives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit51 View Post
    No matter WHAT the intent of the people in the car...this guy was totally WRONG.

    He should have gotten his weapon....stayed inside....locked his doors and have the wife call the police. THEN if they broke in he would be on firm ground for the shooting.

    In our home there would have been TWO armed home owners. We could have dropped them as they walked through the door.

    This guy was WRONG no matter how you "flavor" it.

    I don't see him having freedom for the rest of his natural life. Do you see ANY reason it was justified?? Enlighten me if you do...because I see NONE.

    It is more that just a matter of self defense of home and life....it is also a matter of defending yourself in court and in the eyes of the law.
    Thank you! I am not sure if people in this thread eluding to the fact that the homeowner was somehow justified ("there has to be more to the story") are equally delusional as this guy or just trolling. I mean seriously, how bad is your neighborhood, or how bad do you perceive your neighborhood where shooting at a car in your driveway is justified?
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    Quote Originally Posted by nkanofolives View Post
    Thank you! I am not sure if people in this thread eluding to the fact that the homeowner was somehow justified ("there has to be more to the story") are equally delusional as this guy or just trolling. I mean seriously, how bad is your neighborhood, or how bad do you perceive your neighborhood where shooting at a car in your driveway is justified?
    Have someone try to pin you against your garage door with their car, and see if you still think it's wrong to shoot them.

    I'm really not trolling, 'just trying to point out that things are not always as they seem. This guy was likely trigger happy, but it's a sheep tendency to leap to that conclusion.
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  9. #23
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    I had a situation where two dimwits actually came into my home and we did not shoot them. They were at the wrong address:
    Alarm/warning systems do work
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
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  10. #24
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    We obviously need more of the story, but it seem a difficult to call self-defense on a car driving away...I'm just sayin'...
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  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by nkanofolives View Post
    [/B]

    To me, it is another example of why people need not be so darn paranoid and trigger happy.

    As for the GPS, perhaps they were using Apple Maps?
    IF there was a machine failure that should be verifiable. If not, one question which needs answering is
    what they were doing in his driveway? Another question which needs answering is what about their
    presence or actions caused him to feel sufficiently threatened that after having gone outside unarmed, he returned
    and armed himself?

    The first step, going out to look unarmed, is not the act of a paranoid person or a fearful person. Something
    caused the fear to kick in.

    I think think this whole incident is going to need a lot more investigation and unfortunately it is going to fall on the
    defense team to do that investigation.

    Again, this incident is a great example of why some sort of training in the laws for use of lethal force are necessary.
    Further, the beneficiary is the person who receives the training. Just having read "In the Gravest Extreme" could well
    have saved this man a huge amount of trouble in his life.
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  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by nkanofolives View Post
    Thank you! I am not sure if people in this thread eluding to the fact that the homeowner was somehow justified ("there has to be more to the story") are equally delusional as this guy or just trolling. I mean seriously, how bad is your neighborhood, or how bad do you perceive your neighborhood where shooting at a car in your driveway is justified?
    Bad guys drive to good neighborhoods all the time. On the surface it sounds like a bad shoot, but there are
    always two sides.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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  13. #27
    Distinguished Member Array DontTreadOnI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    ...I think think this whole incident is going to need a lot more investigation and unfortunately it is going to fall on the
    defense team to do that investigation....
    Guilty until proven innocent is becoming more prevalent these days.

    Although it does sound like an obvious bad shoot, I'm in the let's wait an see because we are just people on the internet camp.
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  14. #28
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    Considering that all we have right now is teenagers saying that they were at the wrong house and trying to leave, and NOTHING else, every one of us would be hard pressed to prove that they were just innocently at the wrong house and the old man is paranoid, OR that the old man was justified and the kids were up to no good. Instead of going on about what ifs, lets wait for the facts.
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  15. #29
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DontTreadOnI View Post
    Guilty until proven innocent is becoming more prevalent these days.

    Although it does sound like an obvious bad shoot, I'm in the let's wait an see because we are just people on the internet camp.
    Well, too be fair, when we see stories like this many folks are making the kids guilty of home invasion without any more facts than folks thinking the old man is guilty of over reacting.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
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  16. #30
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHEC724 View Post
    Have someone try to pin you against your garage door with their car, and see if you still think it's wrong to shoot them.

    I'm really not trolling, 'just trying to point out that things are not always as they seem. This guy was likely trigger happy, but it's a sheep tendency to leap to that conclusion.
    I am far from being a "sheep" . I jumped to nothing. I thought about it. If the shooter had stayed in his house....locked his doors....and had called the police....THEN if they came through the door...mow them down, he would have been justified.

    NOT going outside would mean they couldn't use the vehicle as a weapon against him.

    "He's still alive" you might say. I will respond "Lot of good that will do him spending the rest of his natural life in Prison. Death might have been better than sitting in a cage for what is left of his life...surrounded by animals...knowing you killed a innocent young man."
    A woman must not depend on protection by men. A woman must learn to protect herself.
    Susan B. Anthony
    A armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one has to back it up with his life.
    Robert Heinlein

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