Man shoots and kills another man for pulling into his drive way

This is a discussion on Man shoots and kills another man for pulling into his drive way within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Again, I will not be in the least surprised if the shooter was in the wrong. My point is to not take things on face ...

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Thread: Man shoots and kills another man for pulling into his drive way

  1. #46
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    Again, I will not be in the least surprised if the shooter was in the wrong.

    My point is to not take things on face value. I've never shot anyone, but I've been there with the perp lying his butt off and trying to redirect the blame to me. I'm very grateful to investigating officers that knew to not presume.
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  3. #47
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    The old man tried to stop the gun, even forcing the barrel up into the air on the first shot, but it wrenched itself from his control and fired at the car--all by itself. The man is, obviously, only a law-abiding gun owner. He should use the "Guns kill people" defense.
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  4. #48
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    Going by the news stories I would say Sailors was not justified in shooting but as others are saying there needs to be more of the story to be reveled with a proper investigation. Living out in the country it is not uncommon to see someone make a u-turn using our driveway and most are only in the driveway for only a few seconds although I did observe one who seemed to take quite a while, on closer investigation I saw his dome light on and he was looking at a map. Never once did I draw my weapon or shoot.
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  5. #49
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    Sounds bad, but initial reports usually make it sound that way. Need more context to have a real opinion about it.
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  6. #50
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    I have NEVER had anyone U-turn off the dirt road into the goat path that is my driveway...as far as anyone can prove.
    There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.

  7. #51
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    We used to have this sort of thing happen a lot. People would "accidentally" come down our long drive through the woods. Several No Trespassing signs later, that doesn't happen anymore. I think the sound of gunfire may also have discouraged them.

    As others have said, we probably shouldn't rush to judgement. Things looked pretty bad with Zimmerman too, but now we are getting more information that seems to confirm the kid was brutally attacking him when he fired. Not that he didn't still do a bunch of stuff wrong, of course. These things are often a lot more complex then the media would like us to think.

    Thank goodness for the rule of law, eh?
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  8. #52
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    Going by what was printed,the old man in no way, shot him in self defense.If they never got out of the car,he had zero reason to shoot.Assuming,there wasn't more to the story.

  9. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost tracker View Post
    I have NEVER had anyone U-turn off the dirt road into the goat path that is my driveway...as far as anyone can prove.
    ^^^^You hide the bodies that fast?^^^^^^^^^^^

    J/K


    Quote Originally Posted by ghost tracker View Post
    Now THERE'S a tough address to, uhhh...mistakenly miss!
    ^^^^^Maybe, just maybe^^^^^^^^^

    The kids came from the other way, and didnt see the # on the box.

    Maybe, just maybe they were lost, wanted to make a call, before going back out onto the dark road at night which looked as though there was a curve right there.

    This guy will do time.
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  10. #54
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    YMMV depending on where you live:

    PC §30.05. CRIMINAL TRESPASS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person enters or remains on or in property of another, including residential land, agricultural land, a recreational vehicle park, a building, or an aircraft or other vehicle, without effective consent and the person:
    (1) had notice that the entry was forbidden; or
    (2) received notice to depart but failed to do so.

    PC §9.41. PROTECTION OF ONE'S OWN PROPERTY. (a) A person in lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to prevent or terminate the other's trespass on the land

    PC §9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property

    (3) he reasonably believes that:
    (A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or
    (B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

    After looking at that driveway, wondering just how far down the driveway they went, supposing that he did
    tell them to leave, and again looking at the picture of that property, it sure seems like some time would have
    elapsed between his telling them to leave and walking back to the house the distance shown in the photo, to retrieve
    a weapon. They appear to have had plenty of time to git. Having not availed themselves of that
    opportunity and given the disparity in numbers between the home owner and the youngster in the car,
    and who knows what gestures language of defiance may or may not have been used, it is possible
    that the use of deadly force was reasonably the only way to get them out which would not have
    exposed the home owner to "risk of death or serious bodily injury."

    Now, I don't advocate shooting the casual trespasser. It isn't even a wise idea to go back out and confront them
    if a call to 911 can be made, and of course our law here and their law there may not be the same with regards
    to this situation.

    That said, I can see a circumstance in a rural area (which this one sort of appears to be) where the home owner
    confronted by trespassers who perhaps give him the finger and some lip when he tells them to leave may conclude that force is necessary
    and that it can't be used without exposing himself to death or serious bodily injury; hence felt the need to
    first threaten the use of deadly force with a warning shot, and then fired in earnest.

    YMMV vary depending of course on where you live, the exact laws you have, the overall circumstances and situation,
    and the ever unknowable 'reasonable person' standard for the circumstances.
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  11. #55
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    I cant see in that article anyplace the old man went back inside his home to get a gun. Did see where neighbors heard him yelling why was someone trying to get in his house. That he thought it was a home invasion.

    I kind of doubt that the kids are innocent as they claim but a home invasion isnt a home invasion until someone gets in or is trying to get in. Even if they did try to get in they obviously didnt and were in the process of leaving going by where the car was parked.
    Just guessing here honestly but I tend to think that probably the driver had tried to get in the home bolted when he was caught at it and the old dude followed him over reacting shooting a warning to try to stop him getting away and when he made it to his car and pulled out shot him in the head intent on stopping his get away. Which he had no legal reason to do if that is in fact what happened

    All of that is a guess based on what little there is to go on in the article and even if its the case its a bad shoot and old guy does time.
    I could be totally off in left field too.
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  12. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost1958 View Post
    I cant see in that article anyplace the old man went back inside his home to get a gun. Did see where neighbors heard him yelling why was someone trying to get in his house. That he thought it was a home invasion.

    I kind of doubt that the kids are innocent as they claim but a home invasion isnt a home invasion until someone gets in or is trying to get in. Even if they did try to get in they obviously didnt and were in the process of leaving going by where the car was parked.
    Just guessing here honestly but I tend to think that probably the driver had tried to get in the home bolted when he was caught at it and the old dude followed him over reacting shooting a warning to try to stop him getting away and when he made it to his car and pulled out shot him in the head intent on stopping his get away. Which he had no legal reason to do if that is in fact what happened

    All of that is a guess based on what little there is to go on in the article and even if its the case its a bad shoot and old guy does time.
    I could be totally off in left field too.
    Yep, I figure that someone got out of the car and approached the house. They probably turned and ran when the man came out with the gun. Let the law decide if it was a legal shot. It sounds like he might have over reached.

  13. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost1958 View Post
    I cant see in that article anyplace the old man went back inside his home to get a gun. Did see where neighbors heard him yelling why was someone trying to get in his house. That he thought it was a home invasion.
    You are correct, it isn't in the story at the link in post 1. Don't know where I got that idea. Ooops.
    Last edited by Hopyard; January 29th, 2013 at 07:59 PM. Reason: Removed incorrect inaccurate statement of facts
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  14. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    You are correct, it isn't in the story at the link in post 1. Don't know where I got that idea. Ooops.
    It's actually in the second link that says he went back in to get the gun.

    That story also states that Sailors rents a house up the road that was broken into 2 weeks earlier. So he was probably afraid it was a home invasion like he said.

  15. #59
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    Re: Man shoots and kills another man for pulling into his drive way

    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post


    Hm. Someone's backing up out of your driveway and your life is at risk of loss because of it?

    Early reports are rarely complete or correct, so very likely some things are missing. Still, either the occupants were actively seeking to harm him from a distance (ie, training a gun on him), or he's lying and/or psychotic in his understanding of the right we all have to defend against legitimate, unprovoked, active danger.

    Sheesh. If as reported, you can't shoot up the place simply because someone's plodding around in a car, even on your own driveway.
    My statement wasn't in the favor of the home owner.. of course this was unjustified :what:

    My statement was just a hypothesis of what could've happened.. not an attempt at justification. Its going to be really hard, if not impossible to justify this shooting.

  16. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by teetoo View Post
    It's actually in the second link that says he went back in to get the gun.

    That story also states that Sailors rents a house up the road that was broken into 2 weeks earlier. So he was probably afraid it was a home invasion like he said.
    Well if he told them to leave, went back in to get his gun because something seemed wrong, came
    out and they had not departed, their end of the story seems a tad questionable.
    ep1953 likes this.
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