Ugly - sometimes, you just call 911 - "Witness: Neighbor killing was Self-Defense.

This is a discussion on Ugly - sometimes, you just call 911 - "Witness: Neighbor killing was Self-Defense. within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; HOUSTON – A man trying to calm a domestic dispute shot and killed his neighbor in north Harris County Tuesday night. Now, a grand jury ...

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Thread: Ugly - sometimes, you just call 911 - "Witness: Neighbor killing was Self-Defense.

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array Jemsaal's Avatar
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    Ugly - sometimes, you just call 911 - "Witness: Neighbor killing was Self-Defense.

    HOUSTON – A man trying to calm a domestic dispute shot and killed his neighbor in north Harris County Tuesday night. Now, a grand jury must decide if the shooting is a crime or act of self-defense.
    “I think it (was) self-defense,” said Adrian Osuna, one of the shooter’s neighbors.
    “From what I heard, Victor came at (the shooter) with a landscaping rock and was going
    Witness: Neighbor killing was self-defense | khou.com Houston

    Just got out of CCW class today, and this is one thing our trainer really hit on. DONT get involved. We're not LEO. Call 911 and report everything you see. Otherwise, this is the exact position he said we'd find ourselves in.

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    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    Too many emotions running wild at ANY domestic call. I couldn't stand by and watch a neighbor get beat to death, but jumping into an already bad situation isn't the best plan either.

    By all accounts in the article it sounds like a good shoot. Living with the outcome of that shoot is another matter altogether.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jemsaal View Post
    Witness: Neighbor killing was self-defense | khou.com Houston

    Just got out of CCW class today, and this is one thing our trainer really hit on. DONT get involved. We're not LEO. Call 911 and report everything you see. Otherwise, this is the exact position he said we'd find ourselves in.
    Sounds like the shooter and his wife followed his instructor's advice to keep his mouth following a lethal force encounter.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

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    Senior Member Array Lish's Avatar
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    I totally understand not getting involved. I totally understand we're not LEO. Sitting here in the quiet safety of my home I fully and completely understand it and agree. Domestic situations are messy and bystanders may not fully know what's going on. On the other hand though I can understand intervening when someone, especially a woman, is in trouble. Supposedly she was being beaten, outside the home. I do understand not getting involved, but I don't know that I could witness a beating and walk away.

    It's a shame the woman didn't have her own means of protecting herself, that it sounds like she often went to the neighbors for help and put them in dangerous situations in the past.
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    "“From what I heard, Victor came at (the shooter) with a landscaping rock and was going "

    That will do nothing for the guy's defense. That is not a "witness," only hearsay.
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jemsaal View Post
    Just got out of CCW class today, and this is one thing our trainer really hit on. DONT get involved. We're not LEO. Call 911 and report everything you see. Otherwise, this is the exact position he said we'd find ourselves in.
    The beauty of being a citizen is: it's up to each to determine whether getting involved is worth it.

    To some, helping to save a life can be worth the effort and aggravation, even at the cost of a life. To others, it's simply too risky given the state of our legal (nee "Justice") system.

    Still, IMO it depends on the situation. Were the neighbor someone I knew well or a family member, very likely I would come if called to help protect against extreme violence being unjustifiably perpetrated. And if that person dared to cause such extreme threat of loss of life, I'd defend against that. Wouldn't enjoy the aftermath, no.

    That all being said, your instructor was correct to bring up the risks of such situations. No, we're not hired by our neighbors to help protect us. But then, we are already part of our community of neighbors, citizens who have not yet relinquished our sense of humanity, community or citizenship. Nothing says we must have nothing to do with evil when it rears its ugly head. The only thing we need to determine is how to thwart it. Sometimes, calling it in can be the most effective; others, getting directly involved. Depends on the situation.
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    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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    For all advocates of the bystander effect, I encourage you to do a search of "Axel Casian".
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    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    For all advocates of the bystander effect, I encourage you to do a search of "Axel Casian".


    Or, Kitty Genovese.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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    Just got out of CCW class today, and this is one thing our trainer really hit on. DONT get involved. We're not LEO. Call 911 and report everything you see. Otherwise, this is the exact position he said we'd find ourselves in.
    Anytime you shoot somebody you may end up in "Just that situation" Your in Arizona you may want to read up on a little TX SD law,I don't see this going past a Grand Jury for the following reasons

    Sec. 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON.
    (a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:

    (1) if the actor would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.31; and

    (2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:

    (A) to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force; or

    Sec. 9.33. DEFENSE OF THIRD PERSON.
    A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect a third person if:

    (1) under the circumstances as the actor reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.31 or 9.32 in using force or deadly force to protect himself against the unlawful force or unlawful deadly force he reasonably believes to be threatening the third person he seeks to protect; and

    (2) the actor reasonably believes that his intervention is immediately necessary to protect the third person.

    If the guy was walking away and the guy attacked him with a deadly weapon then It's going to be no billed by a Grand Jury.
    The Abuser sure didn't let any court orders or any restraining orders get in his way,I will bet money that he was either under the influence of Alcohol or drugs.
    The fact that it was an ongoing domestic thing I would have called 911 and protected her from further abuse in MY YARD,and not tried to defuse anything except tell the guy to stay out of my yard.If he then comes at me in MY YARD where I have every right to be,then he is going to have a problem
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    Distinguished Member Array Burns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    For all advocates of the bystander effect, I encourage you to do a search of "Axel Casian".
    Couldn't agree more, it makes me sick, I follow my morals long before I worry about the law.
    Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable- JFK

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    Ugly - sometimes, you just call 911

    Agreed....however.....

    One has to evaluate their own physical/mental capabilites vs moral duties. What if they guy who shot the BG does call 911, and while watching, the BG bash the womans head in with that brick, do you say to yourself, "I did everything I could, called 911, me and my family are ok, sorry for her"....or do what he did, had the means to help his neighbor,did, now he has the hassle of this to deal with...no right or wrong answer here, IMHO, a question only the individual in that moment can answer. The BG already had 2 restraning orders against him, Probably only a matter of time before she was seriously hurt or killed....can't say I feel bad for the dead guy..
    The wise man looks for ways to minimize mistakes, a fool boasts it will never happened to him.

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    Senior Member Array Jemsaal's Avatar
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    This obviously is a bit different in that it was a next door neighbor so hopefully, he knew them.

    There are a number of outcomes that could happen from here, including the wife actually turning and protecting the very husband that was beating on her (happens all too often). That said, it's impossible to judge unless I found myself in that exact same situation.

    The only difference is, if I went to my neighbor's house where I live, now I'm in a school zone and violating a federal crime by discharging my weapon while not being on my property. I live JUST outside the school zone. Some place on my neighbor's property is the end of the 1000 feet.

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