Chris Kyle - The American Sniper - shot dead today!!! - Page 4

Chris Kyle - The American Sniper - shot dead today!!!

This is a discussion on Chris Kyle - The American Sniper - shot dead today!!! within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I'll be the bad guy and ask who thought range time was a good therapy for guys with self-proclaimed mental stress issues? Maybe fishing would ...

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Thread: Chris Kyle - The American Sniper - shot dead today!!!

  1. #46
    Senior Member Array NCSoxFan's Avatar
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    I'll be the bad guy and ask who thought range time was a good therapy for guys with self-proclaimed mental stress issues? Maybe fishing would be a better choice in the future.
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  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCSoxFan View Post
    I'll be the bad guy and ask who thought range time was a good therapy for guys with self-proclaimed mental stress issues? Maybe fishing would be a better choice in the future.
    Unfortunately, I have to agree with you to some extent.

    I don't know anything about the methodology of the therapy that Mr. Kyle was participating in, but at the very least, I would think that any 'range therapy' would only be considered an option for very mild cases that also had a very well documented history that didn't include any violent tendencies.

    Since I admit that I don't know anything about this, I'm trying to keep an open mind, but it does lead one to question how/when it's used.
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  3. #48
    VIP Member Array Stevew's Avatar
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    The truth may not ever come out. There is a good chance the the marine blew a gasket over something that happened at the range. There is also a chance that it was something more sinister. USA is hated by many. It's warriors by even more. RIP Chief.
    Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around laws. Plato

  4. #49
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    There is no conspiracy here.

    I knew Chris. He was very close with a close friend of mine and we ran in the same group of people. This one hit close to home. People do crazy things. Sometimes there's just nothing more to it.

    And, the guy who thought it was a good idea was Chris and likely whoever was involved in the treatment of the soldiers. So, we should assume those with PTSD should never fire a gun again as it may set them off? Do we expect them to yell "incoming!" and hit the deck every time they hear a shot being fired??

    I understand the concern of people that are mentally I'll being around firearms. But, each situation is different and if good comes it of it then more power to them.

    These comments about conspiracies that I'm seeing on some forums and news comment sections are downright stupid.

    Edit - I understand the coincidences. But, look back through history. Take almost any school shooting and the following month we see many, many times the number of these types of shootings as usual.

    It's kind of that mob mentality in a way, though they aren't truly a "mob" like a riot for example.

    He was married. He had children. They were his life. That is what's important here. He was a good man doing good for others and some animal, Eddie Ray Routh, killed him and his neighbor.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  5. #50
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    Oh for Gawd's sake - people with post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) should NOT be at the firing range. PTSD is a mental illness. Like bi-polar depression, schizophrenia, or any other serious mental disability.

    If there is one common thread that connects all the recent mass shootings and tragedies we're seeing of late, it's that mentally ill people should not have access to firearms.

    The reticence many members here are going to have is something like, "But... what if I were to be diagnosed as having a mental problem? Would they take my guns away?"

    Basically, yeah. If you've gone nutball, then no, you don't get guns. I spend a lot of time and energy practicing and training in martial arts, gunplay, self defense, exotic weapon skill, biology, anatomy, psychology, and gym work. It's a major investment toward the chance that some criminal is going to target me, and in doing so will be making a major mistake.

    That also means that when I go to my preferred gun range that they discriminate and enforce the rules of safety. There is no possible justification for mentally ill people being on the firing line. None.

    It's insanely stupid and wrong for anyone with a mental problem being given a loaded weapon and told to "go crazy" with it. This tragedy was completely avoidable and is a MAJOR part of preventing the kind of incidents we saw with Gabrielle Giffords and Sandy Hook.

    Psychotic people don't get guns. If we have some kind of system such that they can, then there's the problem.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    And, the guy who thought it was a good idea was Chris and likely whoever was involved in the treatment of the soldiers. So, we should assume those with PTSD should never fire a gun again as it may set them off? Do we expect them to yell "incoming!" and hit the deck every time they hear a shot being fired??

    I understand the concern of people that are mentally I'll being around firearms. But, each situation is different and if good comes it of it then more power to them.
    As I said, I don't know much about it, but if you have a documented case of PTSD and you have had, or are experiencing, any of the symptoms that include violent thoughts or tendencies, or any suicidal thoughts, then I don't believe that you can make much of a case for putting that person around firearms.
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  7. #52
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    Tell us then, what exactly were the safety measures at the range yesterday? Did Chris tell Eddie Ray Routh to just "go crazy"? You know he said that?

    PTSD does not make one a killer. They have every right to go to the range. How many of these situations have happened to make it a known concern?

    You people are essentially calling Chris Kyle's judgement into question. I can tell you his judgement is better than most and I'm disgusted by people that don't know the man basically saying he was wrong. His friends and family are hurting right now, some of which I'm dealing with, and people have the audacity to question this man?

    I'd say Chris was pretty experienced and very knowledgable. This is nonsense here.
    HotGuns, Cdknox, Bark'n and 5 others like this.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  8. #53
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TX expat View Post
    As I said, I don't know much about it, but if you have a documented case of PTSD and you have had, or are experiencing, any of the symptoms that include violent thoughts or tendencies, or any suicidal thoughts, then I don't believe that you can make much of a case for putting that person around firearms.
    I'm not disagreeing with you, generally speaking.

    For those making comments though.... So, it's been stated by those that were there that Eddie Ray was exhibiting violent behavior before the shooting, or ever for that matter? I'd hope to hell the next person stating this nonsense has some verifiable proof.

    This speculation is insane. It needs to stop. WE KNOW NOTHING OF THE SHOOTER'S BEHAVIOR BEFORE THE EVENT. I'm certain Chris didn't see any indication of violent behavior, otherwise he never would have handed him a loaded firearm.

    I edited this post for clarity. In a quote on the next page, I could see how the last paragraph above could have been misunderstood.
    Last edited by jonconsiglio; February 3rd, 2013 at 08:04 PM. Reason: Edited for clarity
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  9. #54
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    Chris Kyle - The American Sniper - shot dead today!!!

    When I first heard about Mr. Kyle's story I simultaneously felt a great sense of respect and unease.

    I thought that so publicly carrying the mantle of the "deadliest sniper in US military history" could one day bring some very unwanted attention.

    RIP Mr. Kyle

  10. #55
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    jonconsiglio Please extend my condolences to his family and friends. RIP Chris Kyle. God has your six.
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  11. #56
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    Godspeed, Chief Petty Officer Kyle.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, donít give them a tomorrow."

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  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by shockwave View Post
    Oh for Gawd's sake - people with post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) should NOT be at the firing range. PTSD is a mental illness. Like bi-polar depression, schizophrenia, or any other serious mental disability.

    If there is one common thread that connects all the recent mass shootings and tragedies we're seeing of late, it's that mentally ill people should not have access to firearms.

    The reticence many members here are going to have is something like, "But... what if I were to be diagnosed as having a mental problem? Would they take my guns away?"

    Basically, yeah. If you've gone nutball, then no, you don't get guns. I spend a lot of time and energy practicing and training in martial arts, gunplay, self defense, exotic weapon skill, biology, anatomy, psychology, and gym work. It's a major investment toward the chance that some criminal is going to target me, and in doing so will be making a major mistake.

    That also means that when I go to my preferred gun range that they discriminate and enforce the rules of safety. There is no possible justification for mentally ill people being on the firing line. None.

    It's insanely stupid and wrong for anyone with a mental problem being given a loaded weapon and told to "go crazy" with it. This tragedy was completely avoidable and is a MAJOR part of preventing the kind of incidents we saw with Gabrielle Giffords and Sandy Hook.

    Psychotic people don't get guns. If we have some kind of system such that they can, then there's the problem.
    Not everyone suffering PTSD is psyhotic. I would guess that anyone that ever had anything bad happen to them, say rape victom, bad auto accident, the list could go on, would likely suffer some form of PTSD. My guess would be that a rape victom should spend lots of time at the shooting range.
    Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around laws. Plato

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    Tell us then, what exactly were the safety measures at the range yesterday? Did Chris tell Eddie Ray Routh to just "go crazy"? You know he said that?

    PTSD does not make one a killer. They have every right to go to the range. How many of these situations have happened to make it a known concern?

    You people are essentially calling Chris Kyle's judgement into question. I can tell you his judgement is better than most and I'm disgusted by people that don't know the man basically saying he was wrong. His friends and family are hurting right now, some of which I'm dealing with, and people have the audacity to question this man?

    I'd say Chris was pretty experienced and very knowledgable. This is nonsense here.
    Whether you like it or not, PTSD is a clinical emotional disorder that has a documented capacity for violent action. It's not an across the board rule that everyone with it will become violent, but it is a known potential. It doesn't take much research on PTSD to understand how "known" a factor violence can be with this disorder.

    I'm not questioning Mr. Kyle's judgement. I stated in my previous post that I know very little about this therapy, or Mr. Kyle's role in it, and I seriously doubt he was doing his own half-cocked assessment of people and just handing them loaded guns; I'm sure he was working within an organization that provides treatment. Unfortunately, the truth is Mr. Kyle could have been handed a grenade with the pin pulled and not had any idea what he was getting into. And in all honesty, the end results here pretty much illustrate how serious this diagnosis should be handled.

    As far as speculation, I hate to say it but that's pretty much half of what we do here. We talk about events and discuss the good/bad/ugly as we see it. Nobody is attacking Mr. Kyle or trying to disparage his memory, and I, like everyone else, believe it to be a tragic and heartbreaking situation.

    I do agree with you on the 'conspiracy' angle. It seems that every recent event comes with an instant conspiracy theory and it's quite unproductive to immediately assume that the true events are being covered up. It closes your mind to ever accepting any truths that come out and it also insures that you won't learn much from history, since all the history is "fictitious".
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  15. #60
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    The funny thing here.......


    To all of you people running your mouths about letting violent (another assumption) PTSD sufferers near firearms, etc... Do you have any proof at this point that former Marine, Eddie Ray Routh, actually suffered from PTSD? D you know that he was violent?

    People complain about the anti-gun people taking the smallest bit of a story, twisting it all different ways, then taking it for fact and running with it. Well, what do you all think you're dong here?

    Facts:

    • Chris Kyle and Chris Littlefield, Chris Kyle's neighbor, were shot to death at Rough Creek firing range.

    • Eddie Ray Routh was arrested for the murders after fleeing in Chris Kyle's pickup truck.

    • Chris Kyle was volunteering his time to help soldiers with PTSD.

    • At the time of the shooting, he was with sufferers of PTSD.

    • Chris Kyle leaves behind a beautiful family which he loved dearly.

    Opinions:

    • I really don't have any opinions other than too many people that have no involvement in this situation have way too many opinions that are based on NOTHING but assumptions.

    • Oh yeah, people with PTSD may become violent.

    • and, apparently we'll assume that Eddie Ray Routh had PTSD.


    There are a bunch of soldiers right now posting on Lightfighter, some from the same team as Kyle and others in the special forces community that would disagree with these assumptions on PTSD.

    Many would likely be insulted by these opinons you all seem to have. I've lost some respect for this forum in a very short amount of time.
    OD*, Cdknox, Bark'n and 3 others like this.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

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