Pit Bull Attack
This is a discussion on Pit Bull Attack within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Spuds was Bull Terrier...
November 21st, 2006 10:26 AM
Spuds was Bull Terrier
"The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper
"Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow.
End the cycle of hatred, donít give them a tomorrow."
November 24th, 2006 03:12 PM
Psychological Stopping Power
Much of the stopping power of handgun caliber ammunition is psychological. Sober and sane humans understand what a gun is and the risks of being shot. A lot of the will to fight can come out of them when shot, even if the shot has not damaged their central nervous system.
Stories abound about drug crazed or enraged humans who take many handgun rounds without stopping their aggression. The adrenaline or chemical levels in their bloodstream imunize them to the psychological effect of being shot. So too with animals, who do not know what a handgun is or that it could kill them. Fleshwounds will not take the fight out of a dog when a similar wound will possibly stop a human. That's why a large dog, trained and controllable, makes such a good home defence weapon.
All the more reason to wait for a closerange head shot with an aggressive animal.
November 24th, 2006 03:59 PM
Amen to that.
adrenaline or chemical levels in their bloodstream imunize them to the psychological effect of being shot. So too with animals, who do not know what a handgun is or that it could kill them. Fleshwounds will not take the fight out of a dog when a similar wound will possibly stop a human. That's why a large dog, trained and controllable, makes such a good home defence weapon.
I've shot lots of deer with rifle,shotgun and bow. Many of them didnt understand what happened. Spme of them continued to feed, others just walked off and few dropped right where they stood. A deer that has been run and has lots of adrenaline flowing is going to be much harder to drop...in many cases running a hundred or so yards with their hearts shot out.
Same thing with dogs. I've had the displeasure of having to shoot several over the years for various reasons. The agressive ones didnt acknowledge a hit, they kept at it until they couldnt move. Others would run out of sight and die elsewhere.
A a big dog that is being agressive on you will be hard to put down because they dont know that you are trying to kill them and I suspect that they really dont feel anything other than a pinch...which in thier mind is inconsequential.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Many folks that carry a gun carry it to NOT use, because its convenient rather than carry an effective caliber that will get the job done in a more efficient manner, but is a pain in the butt to carry.
Personally, I would'nt shoot a sleeping dog with a .22, never mind one that wants to eat me. Its tough enough to do quickly with a .45.Expecting to do it with a minor caliber is wishful thinking.
hecks...the next step towards registration and confiscation.
AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
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November 26th, 2006 02:11 PM
Gents, break out the Armageddon survival stuff. I've agreed with Sixto both his posts on this subject. Scary.
Originally Posted by SIXTO
I was attacked by a couple (one Rotty, one Pit, IIRC) trained by a shadetree trainer. They didn't make it to me; I shot three times while they were in full out charge/attack mode. This was on my land and I had a decent backstop. It still surprises me that I checked this.
I didn't hit them either. I had not practiced for anything coming in low and fast. To give you an idea of exactly how fast this happened, I had time to draw from an outside the waistband holster and shoot three times with a full size 9mm (Taurus 92). They then turned and ran home, while I put it on safe and kept it at low ready for a moment.
So... Draw was 1.5 seconds at most and three shots were less than a second. Being generous with the time, they were almost on top of me in three seconds, after starting from about 25yds out.
I've since modified my training with an electric motor that pulls a brown shopping sack long the ground. Those dogs should have been dead but weren't for a gap in my training that I hadn't even thought about.
As for dog breeds, the very best dog I had was a German Shepherd. She would not even bite in play, even as a puppy, but rather grap a toy and run to the door if you tried to wrestle with her. She saved my life; I was almost trampled by a horse. She came charging and drove it away from me. Another time she herded the neighbors' pigs back when the neighbors were gone. The pigs tore down the fence. Shep took them right back and refused to obey my commands to come as she often did when she knew it wasn't the right thing to do. She also alerted us when the neighbor's house caught fire (poor neighbors; all sorts of bad luck). She was not by nature an attacker, but she did take on another full grown GSD when she was still a pup. That one had threatened my lil' bro and I couldn't get a shot in with my shotgun I had at the time. She sent it home with its tail between its legs and I dropped it with said shotgun ('scoped slug gun). I then called the Sheriff's Dept. to come get the thing while it was checked for rabies.
Another time two boys who were older than me came to my family's house when I was home alone. I had no idea what they wanted until I got out there. Seems they had some beef with me over a misunderstanding. Shep sat right there at my side the entire time, waiting with her ears up. We worked out the disagreement non-violently (in a large part due to Shep sitting there: I told them I had no idea what she might do, but I'd take one of them and she could have the other).
She tuned in to what time I needed up for school and I'd get my face licked until I DID get up. Curiously, she knew what weekends were and just laid down beside my bed on Sat and Sun. I was even able to stop setting my alarm clock.
That dog would also chase bullets and was a better game retriever than any of the retrievers I've had. She was one-of-a-kind and I still miss her.
Two of the worst dogs I've had were retrievers: One was a black lab and the other was a Golden.
Runners up for the "Good Dog" award have been two retrievers as well: One Black Lab and one Chocolate Lab. The Chocolate Lab died from heatstroke. It was not neglect on our part; we had left the dog with some trusted friends while we were in Indianapolis at a family function. The friends felt extremely bad and granted it was a very hot day, but we've used kennels ever since when required.
The Black Lab is a rescue from an abusive home. He's come a very long way; he no longer cowers from anyone but expects to be petted. Neither is he afraid of gunshots anymore.
When he first saw my .22 he was all excited about going outside to "play." We got out there when I touched off, he ran, cowering, licking my hand, and looking scared to death of the newspaper I had retrieved from the mailbox (they come rolled up here). I surmise he was former property of a hunter who was impatient with training dogs.
He began getting treats after shooting and finally he decided that the loud sound was a good thing. He still slinks toward me if he does something he knows better than to do, like sneak people food, but he's coming to know he'll just be scolded and be put outside.
He's one of two dogs I've ever allowed on my bed. The first one was the GSD (German Shepherd Dog). This one, Abe, is asleep in a strangely human fashion on my bed as I type this. His head is on my pillow and he's stretched out on the sleeping bag (yeah, I prefer them to blankets, especially during the winter when I kill the heat during the night).
A couple fun dog facts:
1) tests have confirmed that dogs are more intelligent than generally believed. A good specimen has the equivelent reasoning abilities of a seven year old kid, though their thinking is, of course, a bit alien to humans.
2) Some dogs do try to speak human language. Wide mouthed dogs such as pits and rots tend to do this better, and I have personally heard one that referred to his lady owner as "mama." On of the retrievers we had did try to vocalize frequently too, as well as an 80% hybrid wolfdog that my ex owns (my dog, really, but I decided not to argue the case as long as I got visitation.) They understand far more than what was previously believed. Abe (the BL), for example, will sometimes balk at the command, "come." However, if I say, "Get over here, Dummy!" he'll come running.
3) I've never met a bad Rotty or Pit except for those trained to be mean. All my encounters have been very positive. One owner, my landlord when I was in Vincennes for college, gave me permission to pet his Rotty but warned me that it was viscious. Ok, cool... dogs and I have an understanding. I don't bite them and they don't bite me (I've been able to approach K9s without the owners present - dumb, I know, and it could ruin their training). Anyway, I approached this Rotty sloowly, my head down and hand out. The dog's looking at me, trying to wag its stub of a tail. I couldn't tell for sure what type of wag it was, but it looked friendly enough. Next thing I know it's leaping at me, going for my throat! But instead, it hit my nose with its nose (doggy greeting), bringing tears to my eyes, and proceeded to wash my face while I petted him. He wouldn't leave me alone after that
He was a bona fide Good Dog as well.
It's all in the training and the breeding, folks. I've come to sincerely believe that.
November 26th, 2006 03:42 PM
First of all I am glad that you and the Mrs are ok. Thank god you had your pistol on you. This could have been really bad.
Originally Posted by Manwell
I have to agree with Manwell here. I would have shot the dog. I would have shot the dog even after the warning shot stopped it. You said that it just stopped and stood there.... perfect time for a couple of well placed shots. This dog is obviously a menace.
My thinking here is that you were able to avoid attack because you were armed and prepared. What about others? The dog very well could have attacked someone else after you left it there. God forbid a child that would have no chance of stopping an attack.
I will gladly do some paperwork to make my neighborhood a safer place.
Again, I am glad that you and your wife are safe.
Just my opinion.
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft!
-- Theodore Roosevelt --
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