This is not self defense with a firearm but it belongs here. it is PURE UGLY

This is not self defense with a firearm but it belongs here. it is PURE UGLY

This is a discussion on This is not self defense with a firearm but it belongs here. it is PURE UGLY within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Move it if you must mods... But I could think of no more suitable place... it ain't off topic, it ain't humor, it ain't Second ...

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Thread: This is not self defense with a firearm but it belongs here. it is PURE UGLY

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    This is not self defense with a firearm but it belongs here. it is PURE UGLY

    Move it if you must mods... But I could think of no more suitable place... it ain't off topic, it ain't humor, it ain't Second Amendment... but it's in the news and it is UGLY

    The Des Moines register published an interactive map... Not of homes with permits to carry... but of Schools that DID NOT have armed Security... and various levels of security at schools.

    Original story with map removed: http://www.desmoinesregister.com/int...urity-officers

    They removed the map after public outcry:

    Story 1: Outrage After Des Moines Register Publishes Interactive Map Identifying Schools With No Security | Fox News Insider

    Story 2: Des Moines Register Publishes Map Showing Schools Without Guards

    More stories: https://www.google.com/news/story?pz...hYWWGPM&cf=all

    Interview with editor: http://foxnewsinsider.com/2013/03/28...-security-map/


    The Blaze (IMO irresponsibly) still has the map in PDF format here: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...rity-officers/

    Absolute STUPIDITY! STUPID UGLY!
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array xXxplosive's Avatar
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    This just confirms my feelings that the inmates are running the assylum...............speechless.
    IMO.....this should be sent to the WH after his speech on child safety today.
    mano3, msgt/ret and Jeanlouise like this.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Array mulle46's Avatar
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    Might as well put up the No Guns-Innocent Victims sign.
    You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, "I have lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along." . . . You must do the thing you think you cannot do. Eleanor Roosevelt

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Now the question remains...

    Who is more irresponsible? The DM Register, which took down the map, apparently within 20 minutes of it's publication; or The Blaze, which continues to have the map, posted as a PDF, on their site?

    IMO, BLAZE ought to lose the map...
    bigmacque likes this.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  5. #5
    Member Array GeorgiaShooter's Avatar
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    Regardless of this, all schools are vulnerable. Having a green dot showing which schools have a cop driving by once a day means zippo. Cops nor retired cops, nor armed security guards do ANYTHING measurable to protect. Same as cops can't protect in a gun legal zone. The issue here is that PEOPLE need to be free to arm themselves in almost ALL current gun free zones. That is the common piece here, not whether or not cops are around. The very moment criminals and nut jobs can't identify a gun free zone they no longer have the guarantee of success. Put yourself in the mind and place of a nut case mass murderer. Even in a school with a guard or cop. Simply shoot them first by surprise, wait until they go to lunch, or drive around the corner. These mass murders happening in a couple of MINUTES. Unless you want an armed force protecting every school in the nation the simple fix is already proven with history and costs zero tax dollars. Let parents, people, teachers legally carry in current gun free zones. Just look at court houses where judges, officers and people in court rooms are killed time after time in a building full of cops. Then flip around and compare places where guns are legalized and regular people that blend in are allowed to carry, the crime drops to almost zero. This whole guarded school theory, is just that, a theory. One that is false. These maps mean nothing, IMO.

    Good news though, we dont have that many terrorists and mass murders living in the USA, because anyone of us trained with guns, resourceful and clever could commit one mass murder after another at malls, churches, schools endlessly with some planning. And you wouldn't require high cap magazines or assault rifles either. A few things that are a myth in America. Homeland Security is useless, Cops cannot protect you, the TSA cannot stop terrorists from getting on planes or killing people, the federal government cannot help or regulate anything without making a problem into a disaster. Sorry for the reality check... I just like to look at things based on history and factual data. A cop standing at a bunch of schools is NOT going to protect hardly anyone unless pure luck comes into play. A mass murder needs no map to be target rich, and there is almost zero crime in Iowa. You can sleep there with your doors unlocked in almost all places.

  6. #6
    Distinguished Member Array Exacto's Avatar
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    And he tried to defend it by saying, people were paying for security at these schools and there is none.
    Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunder bolt...... Sun Tzu.

    The supreme art of war is to defeat the enemy without fighting........ Sun Tzu.

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgiaShooter View Post
    Regardless of this, all schools are vulnerable. Having a green dot showing which schools have a cop driving by once a day means zippo. Cops nor retired cops, nor armed security guards do ANYTHING measurable to protect. Same as cops can't protect in a gun legal zone. The issue here is that PEOPLE need to be free to arm themselves in almost ALL current gun free zones. That is the common piece here, not whether or not cops are around. The very moment criminals and nut jobs can't identify a gun free zone they no longer have the guarantee of success. Put yourself in the mind and place of a nut case mass murderer. Even in a school with a guard or cop. Simply shoot them first by surprise, wait until they go to lunch, or drive around the corner. These mass murders happening in a couple of MINUTES. Unless you want an armed force protecting every school in the nation the simple fix is already proven with history and costs zero tax dollars. Let parents, people, teachers legally carry in current gun free zones. Just look at court houses where judges, officers and people in court rooms are killed time after time in a building full of cops. Then flip around and compare places where guns are legalized and regular people that blend in are allowed to carry, the crime drops to almost zero. This whole guarded school theory, is just that, a theory. One that is false. These maps mean nothing, IMO.

    Good news though, we dont have that many terrorists and mass murders living in the USA, because anyone of us trained with guns, resourceful and clever could commit one mass murder after another at malls, churches, schools endlessly with some planning. And you wouldn't require high cap magazines or assault rifles either. A few things that are a myth in America. Homeland Security is useless, Cops cannot protect you, the TSA cannot stop terrorists from getting on planes or killing people, the federal government cannot help or regulate anything without making a problem into a disaster. Sorry for the reality check... I just like to look at things based on history and factual data. A cop standing at a bunch of schools is NOT going to protect hardly anyone unless pure luck comes into play. A mass murder needs no map to be target rich, and there is almost zero crime in Iowa. You can sleep there with your doors unlocked in almost all places.

    Most of what you say is true...

    But the Sand Hook shooter allegedly had a four foot by seven foot (yes FEET, not inches) spreadsheet in 9 point type of other mass murderers and their weapons, methodology, etc. ... and specifically targeted Sandy Hook because it was a gun free zone with no resource officer, or any one else armed... So that he could make it to the top of his spreadsheet... He was computer adept. He could use information like this to better plan his rampage...

    And Sandy Hook is a bedroom community to larger cities. Much like Palo or Atkins is to Cedar Rapids... And those towns have schools... just like Sandy Hook. In communities where few feel the need to lock their doors. Evil is loose in the world.. and we are giving it maps with the means to "get" us... And it is STUPID beyond MEASURE.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array blitzburgh's Avatar
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    I seen this on the news earlier today and couldn't help but to wonder why such a big deal wasn't made when they practically did the same thing to legal gun owners.
    "Rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God." - Benjamin Franklin
    "Experience: that most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God do you learn." - C.S. Lewis

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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blitzburgh View Post
    I seen this on the news earlier today and couldn't help but to wonder why such a big deal wasn't made when they practically did the same thing to legal gun owners.
    Are you talking NY? or the publication of Permit holder's names in the paper? If the former... there was an outcry... we just got a little better at reacting, quicker.
    Rats!
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    Member Array tele_pathic's Avatar
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    This reminds me of legislation that was proposed but thankfully didn't pass here in Utah. Summarized, it gave parents the right to know who cc'ed at school, and if they wanted, they could remove their child from that class. I don't necessarily have a problem with the second part, but I would say then could't you move your child because the teacher was/wasn't LDS? And that becomes problematic. No, my larger concern was this: The next Lanza who had a child enrolled at a particular school could go to the administration and ask for a list of teachers that cc. Then plan a route through the school eliminating those targets first. I have serious reservations about that.

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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    I am with you OAK, this is crap. Having it done to permit holders is bad enough, at least they can protect themselves. Putting babies in harms way is just stupid....
    Jeanlouise likes this.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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  12. #12
    VIP Member Array blitzburgh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    I am with you OAK, this is crap. Having it done to permit holders is bad enough, at least they can protect themselves. Putting babies in harms way is just stupid....
    Having guns(s) doesn't guarantee one's safety just as having armed guards doesn't guarantee our children's safety. To me, publishing either one is just as bad as the other.
    "Rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God." - Benjamin Franklin
    "Experience: that most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God do you learn." - C.S. Lewis

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    I absolutely agree with outing such schools and institutions, particularly when our loved ones are at risk via the failures of such places.

    But making the information completely public (to the point of specific names/maps) is abhorrently irresponsible, no less than publishing the full-address list of CHL carriers in a county.

    IMO, they should absolutely have done their jobs as independent press, but (a) published the basic reality in such a way that the identifying information was hidden; (b) given the heads of such schools/institutions a solid opportunity to respond to the specific "charges" of failing to provide security despite funding technically having paid for it; and (c) provide a forum in which the "conversation" could be had on the issue. Apparently, they felt strongly enough given that the situation had been allowed to get so far down the path. But I hate the idea they named names, which of course (if the data's complete) provides a horrible roadmap for the violent cretins in our society who'd love nothing more than to take down a number of other Sandy Hook type schools.
    phreddy and msgt/ret like this.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blitzburgh View Post
    Having guns(s) doesn't guarantee one's safety just as having armed guards doesn't guarantee our children's safety. To me, publishing either one is just as bad as the other.
    It is wrong on both accounts. Point of the matter is, at least the permit holders have the ability to protect themselves. Whereas the children do not. A fighting chance is better than holding up on a wall and waiting to die.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    I have a question... no, two... According to the editor of the paper, citizens were calling the paper to find out if their school had armed guards...

    Why on earth were parents calling the paper and not their own child's school admin?
    Why on earth did the editor decide, since parents were calling them, did they decide to publish, with a map, all of the schools in Iowa, and whether or not the school district had security, or whether they refused to answer?

    This is all around stupidity... not JUST on the paper... but on the parents who called as well...

    Security at a school DOES NOT guarantee safety... after all, Columbine had security... on the day of the shooting/bombing. However, it might give students an fighting chance, and a better one than no security at all... or glass doors that can be shot out.
    bigdogtx likes this.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

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