Missouri's first CCW self defense

This is a discussion on Missouri's first CCW self defense within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; In court a lot of times, it's a different story of how "they" will see things is the problem. I understand the statute/statute's but the ...

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Thread: Missouri's first CCW self defense

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Ti Carry's Avatar
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    In court a lot of times, it's a different story of how "they" will see things is the problem.

    I understand the statute/statute's but the fact remains we "do not" have a stand your ground law in effect at this time. What I was actually saying, or trying to say, with disgust! was I think Juan waited as long as he did to use force because of the "duty to retreat" and fear of prosecution I should have said. I am not saying that he didn't have the right to use force and he actually did have to retreate in this case because he did have the right and had the right much sooner than he finally did use it I believe. I just can see him waiting (as he did) for fear of prosecution and "waiting" can be dangerous to your health and changed this story into bad guy-1 good guy-0, I'm glad it didn't. It was down to a him or Juan before Juan took the action to stop the threat. Juan (to my knowledge) was never considered being charged for this SD shooting and was cleared very quickly in this case as far as I know.


    Ti.
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  3. #17
    Member Array CharlieMike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BushidoMarine View Post
    ..because he tried to make a hole-in-Juan!!
    ZING!

  4. #18
    Member Array MJZZZ's Avatar
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    I'm glad the the Homeboy didn't get a "hole in Juan", but that is not the first carjacking or murder at the the 70th and Troost carwash. A person "needs" to be armed to drive a tricked out vehicle in that neighborhood, or just stay away from that area like I do. He did a good job saving his life, but now he'll have to live with it. One less scumbag for the taxpayers to feed. Mike Z
    "fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen.'' Warren vs District of Columbia

  5. #19
    Senior Member Array mzmtg's Avatar
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    It's sad...

    ...it's sad that such a nice truck had to die.

  6. #20
    VIP Member Array KenpoTex's Avatar
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    TiCarry, I read ya.
    "Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina

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  7. #21
    Distinguished Member Array randytulsa2's Avatar
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    Guys, I'm glad Juan didn't get killed and my eyes have not dampened because that BG isn't around to carjack again.

    But I'm missing something here....unless I am mistaken (which happens with me all too often as I age), Juan was on the outside of the truck, closing the rear, then the front passenger door.

    If that's so, the DA took so long to decide not to charge him because in the twisted, tangled mind of an anti-gun persecutor, old Juan could (should) have beat feet when he closed that rear door.

    Bushido: shame on you.

    Not.

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array Ti Carry's Avatar
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    Guys, I'm glad Juan didn't get killed and my eyes have not dampened because that BG isn't around to carjack again.

    But I'm missing something here....unless I am mistaken (which happens with me all too often as I age), Juan was on the outside of the truck, closing the rear, then the front passenger door.

    If that's so, the DA took so long to decide not to charge him because in the twisted, tangled mind of an anti-gun persecutor, old Juan could (should) have beat feet when he closed that rear door.

    I agree with that and was my point all along. Waiting, not waiting, do you, don't you? Training is one thing, but trying to avoid being killed, shooting the BG to save your life and trying to avoid being hung by the jury (if charged) is just ridiculous to have to have all that weighing on you in a SD situation. If you are defending your life, you are defending your life, end of story. BG, gun, threats, car jacking, rap sheet! Legally armed citizen minding your own business and you seriously have to think about all this crap during all of this? I just don't understand it, I will never understand it and it makes me sick to think that someone would think I, or anyone was not dead to rights able to protect our self's with something like this. Amazing!



    Ti.
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  9. #23
    Member Array sailormnop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmidkiff View Post
    I'll have to ask him when I next see him about this interview. The interviewer seemed to be rather biased, calling this defensive shooting a murder and such.
    He didn't call it murder - he called it homicide, which is accurate.
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  10. #24
    VIP Member Array Old Chief's Avatar
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    Sounds like a good conclusion to a bad incident.
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  11. #25
    Member Array OpFlash's Avatar
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    They twisted a few aspects to avoid showing CCW in a more positive light either out of bias or ignorance. In some ways this clip does more harm than good.

    They make it sound like this is the first time someone used the CCW law that has been around for two years to successfully defend themselves. The clip they used of the lawyer saying how rare it is for a permit holder to actually use their weapon reinforces this misconception, even though he does say something about "1 out of 10,000". It's not clear at all that what he is actually saying is that in thousands of crime attempts permit holders successfully defend themselves with no shots fired.

    Also they show a clip of him practially apologizing for shooting the guy more than once, making it sound like what he did was wrong but understandable. No mention of the fact that that is what permit holders are trained to do. Everybody knows that BGs fall over and stop being bad after one shot right?
    Last edited by OpFlash; November 10th, 2006 at 02:05 PM.
    "To my mind, it is wholly irresponsible to go into the world incapable of preventing violence, injury, crime, and death. How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic." - The Nuge

  12. #26
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OpFlash View Post
    Also they show a clip of him practially [sic] apologizing for shooting the guy more than once, making it sound like what he did was wrong but understandable.
    Assuming that was the guy himself, it was in his own words, being interviewed like that. Can't help an overly-apologetic person who has remorse over the lost life, really.

    He's got some heavy thinking to do, if he's got such a level of worry over the criminal. Sure, feel bad. Sure, feel concerned for his family. But absolutely come to grips with the reality that it was the criminal's choice of paths to follow, and the criminal's sole responsibility for his crimes and his own death. The sooner this guy comes to understand the true nature, the healthier he'll be. To my way of thinking, this mode of thought is one of the greatest battles we've got, to help folks understand that crime its repercussions is the criminals' responsibility.
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  13. #27
    Member Array Only Glock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ti Carry View Post
    We have a "must retreate" and no castle doc yet. So, really Juan had to do what he did and really couldn't by law shoot first and ask questions later even being held up/car jacked at gun point (not that he had any choice in the matter). It is just funny to me that this happened several months ago and they are just now reporting favorably about it.


    Ti.
    Correct me if I am wrong, but don't the "must retreat" laws say you must retreat if you can do so without substantially increasing the risk to your safety? If he had tried to retreat, it appeared that there is a good possibility that it would have angered the dirtbag and increased his likelihood of shooting.

    Personally I think the requirement to retreat is pure BS aimed at pacifying the anti's, so we don't have "wild west shootouts in the streets every day" or some such crap.

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  14. #28
    Senior Member Array tanksoldier's Avatar
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    I've never understood how you can be expected to retreat from someone with a gun. You can't outrun bullets.

    My understanding of the "retreat" laws is that you have to retereat if possible. To my min d it would be impossible to retreat when being held at gunpoint and it would be impossible to retreat if that left another victim in danger.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ti Carry View Post
    We have a "must retreate" and no castle doc yet. So, really Juan had to do what he did and really couldn't by law shoot first and ask questions later even being held up/car jacked at gun point (not that he had any choice in the matter). It is just funny to me that this happened several months ago and they are just now reporting favorably about it.


    Ti.
    "I am a Soldier. I fight where I am told, and I win where I fight." GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

  15. #29
    Member Array critterhog's Avatar
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    It's kinda funny the BG's pic is a mug shot from KS. Trouble maker in two states.

    I'm glad we have the castle doc in KS. "Retereat if possible" to is a lot different to me w/my life in danger than that of someone that's not there and dosen't like guns.

  16. #30
    VIP Member Array Ti Carry's Avatar
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    Only Glock and tanksoldier,

    I agree with you both and you are correct and that is what's so frustrating about this "duty to retreat" thing. You are supposed to try and retreat but in all reality you will probably die or take a shot in the back trying to. It's very frustrating that you would have to even concern yourself with the fear of prosicution for defending yourself from an arm BG trying to kill you and/or take your property and their best answer is "RUN". Forget that, run and die! at least if you stand your ground and fight back you have a much better chance of survival if you ask me and especially if you have trained for these SHTF event's, your odd's go way up of winning the fight then even if held at gun point.


    Ti.
    Train and train hard, you might not get a second chance to make a first impression!

    I vote for Monica Lewinsky's Ex-Boyfriend's Wife for President.....Not!

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