CA Police Break Down Door and Taze Homeowners

CA Police Break Down Door and Taze Homeowners

This is a discussion on CA Police Break Down Door and Taze Homeowners within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Here's a video from the homeowner's perpsective: It would appear that a 'Domestic Violence' dispute was called in by a third party, officers show up ...

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Thread: CA Police Break Down Door and Taze Homeowners

  1. #1
    Member Array ItalianSteel's Avatar
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    CA Police Break Down Door and Taze Homeowners

    Here's a video from the homeowner's perpsective:



    It would appear that a 'Domestic Violence' dispute was called in by a third party, officers show up at the door. The homeowners refuse to let the police in and it would seem the husband and wife (I assume) are telling the officers there is no problem. Of course there is no warrant and the officers force their way in. The homeowners constantly tell the officers that they cannot enter and eventually are tazed and I assume arrested.

    This situation bothers me a great deal. I can understand if there is a visible (or rather audible) dispute happening, or one of the people involved calls it in for help. However, an anonymous tip by an informant does not give probable cause nor reasonable suspicion.

    So I'll pose this to you fellow forum members. You're at home one day with your significant other and the cops show up about a 'domestic violence' claim (that never happened). You tell them everything is alright and they must be mistaken. They say they are not and force their way in and attempt to arrest/subdue you. How do you react? How do you deal with it afterwards?

    I know some may say, "Well just open the door and talk to the officers." However, you have no requirement to do so without them having probable cause/reasonable suspicion. Sure, you could "just do it to make it (perhaps) easier on yourself," but where is the 4A at that point? Where do you draw the line?


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    How do you know the call was made by a third party? Do you know the contents of the call?
    However, an anonymous tip by an informant does not give probable cause nor reasonable suspicion
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Where is this information?

    I am not saying either way until I know the facts.,,,not assumptions.
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    Member Array ItalianSteel's Avatar
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    From the video description, it says that the neighbors called it in (noise complaint maybe). Either way, it seems quite clear from the video that no party at the home was claiming a domestic violence issue.

    As for the legal ruling on anonymous tips: Florida v. J.L. (March 2000):

    The United States Supreme Court held in a unanimous opinion by Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg that the search was unreasonable. That the tip accurately identified the defendant and that the allegation of the firearm ultimately proved to be accurate was insufficient to justify the seizure. For a completely anonymous tip to justify even a "stop and frisk" of a suspect pursuant to Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 (1968), it must be "suitably corroborated" with both the accurate prediction of future activity of the subject[1] and accurate in its assertion of potential criminal activity. The tip given in the J.L. case was only sufficient to identify the subject and nothing more, making the police reliance upon it unjustified.

    The Court further declined to create a standard "firearms exception" to the Terry doctrine, It was unlawful but the man was detained, as was recognized in some Federal circuits, stating, among other things, that "Such an exception would enable any person seeking to harass another to set in motion an intrusive, embarrassing police search of the targeted person simply by placing an anonymous call falsely reporting the target's unlawful carriage of a gun . . ."[2]
    Now, I'm fairly sure that if you can't even stop and frisk from an anonymous tip, you surely can't go breaking down doors without a warrant.

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    VIP Member Array shadowwalker's Avatar
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    If there is a call in most states that is probable cause but I believe there may be a whole lot more than meets the eye

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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    oops, followed the url and found the original story.....Infowars and Alex Jones......sorry. I am disinterested at this point since Infowars is not by any stretch of the imagination a credible source. Is it true or not? Who ever knows with Mr. Jones.

    Dang......5 minutes of my life gone tha I will never get back!!!
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    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

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    There is absolutely no way to tell what that was all about.
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    Distinguished Member Array AZJD1968's Avatar
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    I hate trying to make comments and draw conclusions from 2 minute youtube videos.
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    Member Array GetSmith's Avatar
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    That video could be rather one sided. The police could have waited outside unnoticed to the homeowners and witnessed there "argument". I'm no proponent of a police state but unless martial law has been declared I'm going to comply with the police requests when they are at my door. We have courts and lawyers to rectify injustices.

    If the husband in this video had complied at most he probably would have had to take a time out from his home for the night with no charges. Now he is looking at much worse. That video will do nothing for him in a lawsuite against the police.

    The police are not the "bad guys". They have families too. If the home owners would have just opened to door and talked to them they would be in a much better position.

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    Member Array ItalianSteel's Avatar
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    It's not just on InfoWars, of course they will post about it. It has gone viral elsewhere.

    I'm taking the video as what can be discerned. The officers specifically mention a "domestic violence" issue. However, everyone (at least 3 separate people) in the home all deny an issue. I find it hard to believe someone in that house called it in and now are denying it. It would seem far more likely that a neighbor or someone else nearby called in a noise complaint saying "it sounded like screaming/arguing" or something like that (however true it may have been).

    I've had a few friends get noise complaints before (and not hear the cops knocking) which they were left a ticket. I really don't see breaking down the door necessary for that. Now assuming they were responding to a DV call, this situation looks fairly tame. I'm going with innocent until proven guilty here, and I really don't see anything suspicious about the behavior at the home. In that case I think the cops should have just warned them and went on their way, there seems like nothing to resolve.

    Again, yes I agree that if the homeowner had just gone out and talked to him it would have been a non-issue more than likely. However, having your door kicked in and being tazed because you don't want to open your door and allow the cops in seems a bit extreme. You could say the same for, "well even if they don't have a warrant, just let them in, it'll be easier on you." However, we still have rights.

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    I would sure like a follow-up to this story.
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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    The problem is we do not have all the facts and you are doing a lot of assuming:
    I find it hard to believe someone in that house called it in and now are denying it. It would seem far more likely that a neighbor or someone else nearby called in a noise complaint saying "it sounded like screaming/arguing" or something like that (however true it may have been).

    I've had a few friends get noise complaints before (and not hear the cops knocking) which they were left a ticket. I really don't see breaking down the door necessary for that. Now assuming they were responding to a DV call, t
    Dang...wasted more of time watching Mr. Jones:
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

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    Seems to me that a claim of clear sounds of abuse/harm going on inside the home justifies checking it out (probable cause). If the residents won't allow entry, then IMO the LE need to follow the statutes related to probable cause (and, if needed, warrants) to deal with the situation. Though I don't know for certain, I'd bet that an exigent situation such as claimed violence fully qualifies for identifying the residents and whether there has been harm, whether that entails them all coming to the door and answering questions or entry of LE to verify.
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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    It's not just on InfoWars, of course they will post about it. It has gone viral elsewhere.
    Sightings of Bigfoot and UFO's have gone viral also...........Oh, thanks...you made my point LOL......

    Seriously, we do not know what happens before the recording starts. How do you not know if the officers heard a fight or anything to that nature?
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

  14. #14
    Member Array ItalianSteel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    I would sure like a follow-up to this story.
    Sort of related ish, but there was some situation in Omaha, NE where police used excessive force (video) on someone being detained. A neighbor was witnessing from the street and was soon chased back into their house by an officer (@ 2:00 into the video) and then more officers show up and charge the neighbor's house. The follow up? Charges were dropped on the suspect, and four officers were fired from an investigation.

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    Distinguished Member Array AZJD1968's Avatar
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    After thinking about for a minute, I can see clearly what happened.. here is the story.

    A woman is tired of her husband going to work everyday and leaving her home with the kids, so they make a plan to:

    The man will start screaming, yelling and hitting the woman loudly enough to make a huge scene, enough to get the neighbors involved, to the point that they can the police.
    Then, when the police get there they will play like nothing happened and make sure not to open the door and to MAKE SURE that the video camera is running while they say that there rights are being violated.
    When the police force their way in, they will sue them for millions, he can stay home, be with her and the kids everyday and not miss a second of them growing up.

    There. That my story and I'm sticking to it, until I get different info.
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