They'll just take it away from you...

They'll just take it away from you...

This is a discussion on They'll just take it away from you... within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6163326.stm Men bailed after gang kills woman Ms Chung was stamped and kicked to death in her own home Three men and a youth have ...

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Thread: They'll just take it away from you...

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array mzmtg's Avatar
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    They'll just take it away from you...

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6163326.stm


    Men bailed after gang kills woman

    Ms Chung was stamped and kicked to death in her own home
    Three men and a youth have been bailed by police after armed raids during which a woman was kicked to death and a child was held at knifepoint.

    Kam Fum Chung, 65, was killed at her west London home early on 6 November.

    Later the gang raided a nearby house and threatened a man's daughter with a knife. They fled when the man grabbed their gun and fought back.

    Police said the men, two aged 21, one 23 and the other 17, had been released on bail until February 2007.

    Police believe the robbers may have targeted Ms Chung, who owned a Chinese restaurant, thinking she had the day's takings with her.

    Traumatised children

    Detectives have established she did not have the money with her when she returned home to Meadowview, Cowley, just before the attack.

    A post-mortem examination revealed mother-of-two Ms Chung, who lived alone, died of multiple stamps and kicks to the face and chest.

    The gang drove off in her Volkswagen car and forced their way into a house in Vine Lane, Hillingdon, where a man and his two children were asleep.

    Wearing balaclavas, one of them brandished a fake gun while another fetched the girl from her room and held a knife to her throat.

    But they were forced to escape when the girl's 49-year-old father, grabbed the gun and used it to hit all three of them.

    He was stabbed in the knee, but his children were not injured.


  2. #2
    Member Array walther1's Avatar
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    Good for him for fighting back. It could have been worse if he didn't.

    I would have done same thing, only BGs would already have been facing when they came through my door. It might be different in UK, though (gun ownership and all). I don't know.

    As for UK, what the heck is happening there, when BGs do all of this and then are...allowed to leave on bond until FEBRUARY? That is ashame and shows you how similar their legal system is to ours. I hear UK has a real problem when it comes to crime. Similar/worse than US? Can someone comment?

    In any case, my prayers are with Ms. Chung's family.
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  3. #3
    Ex Member Array dwolsten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walther1 View Post
    Good for him for fighting back. It could have been worse if he didn't.
    Actually, it's probably good he didn't shoot them, since then we would have been charged with murder. I'm honestly surprised he wasn't arrested for threatening them with his gun, or for having the gun in the first place.

    As for UK, what the heck is happening there, when BGs do all of this and then are...allowed to leave on bond until FEBRUARY? That is ashame and shows you how similar their legal system is to ours. I hear UK has a real problem when it comes to crime. Similar/worse than US? Can someone comment?
    The UK is a seriously screwed-up country. We like to complain here about all the silliness with gun control problems we have, but it's nothing like that complete insanity that goes on over there. It wasn't that long ago that a couple apprehended a burglar in their home, using a fake gun. The police arrested them for threatening the burglar with a firearm.

    From what I've read, the UK's per-capita crime rate is actually significantly higher than our own. Their death rate is lower, but this is mainly because they don't have as many guns, and knives and other weapons are usually used instead, leaving horrible scars on the victims. Also, they don't have all the gang violence we have, so in reality, their regular middle-class citizens are probably affected far more by street crime (mainly muggings and other assaults) than we are when we walk somewhere in public.

    Basically, it seems that the criminals in UK are allowed to run rampant, and victims are prosecuted whenever they try to resist. Legally, people in the UK aren't even allowed to defend themselves in their own homes from attackers.
    Last edited by dwolsten; November 22nd, 2006 at 02:00 AM.

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    I used to like England and British culture. (I was turned on to it by my brother back in the '70s and '80s with Monty Python and stuff.)

    Now that country makes me feel like puking.

    What on earth are they thinking when they allow people suspected of stomping the face and chest of a 60-something woman until she DIED to be released on bail?! Are they NUTS?!

    I hope those guys kill more people, and then the judge who let them go feels such guilt that he hangs himself in his bathroom and is found by his children. That's how angry this makes me!

  5. #5
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    Come 'On...peacefuljeffrey...

    Quote Originally Posted by peacefuljeffrey View Post
    I used to like England and British culture. (I was turned on to it by my brother back in the '70s and '80s with Monty Python and stuff.)

    Now that country makes me feel like puking.

    What on earth are they thinking when they allow people suspected of stomping the face and chest of a 60-something woman until she DIED to be released on bail?! Are they NUTS?!

    I hope those guys kill more people, and then the judge who let them go feels such guilt that he hangs himself in his bathroom and is found by his children. That's how angry this makes me!
    Won't you please tell us how you REALLY feel?

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  6. #6
    VIP Member Array Old Chief's Avatar
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    England is on a slipery down slope with little or no possibility of changing for the better.
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  7. #7
    VIP Member Array swiftyjuan's Avatar
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    This is so disgusting, I can't comment on it; I would be thrown off the forum!
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  8. #8
    Distinguished Member Array randytulsa2's Avatar
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    Hey, Jeff, it's not good to hold back, man. Let it all hang out here and tell what you really think, man....

    What a nutty place. One of my favorite rants is how we got so much of our culture, country, legal system, etc. from them.

    Our "Mother Country"? Nope.

    Mother_ _ _ _ _ _ _ country, maybe.

    But there are places like that in OUR country and those who would like to see more of them.

    Jeez, I better go watch some football to cool off.....

  9. #9
    New Member Array macktee's Avatar
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    Here's an interesting essay on the subject:

    http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=2205



    A small excerpt from it:

    ... After the First World War, gun control laws began restricting the possession of firearms. Then, after the Second World War, these restrictions grew more severe, eventually disarming the civilian population of England -- or at least the law-abiding part of it.

    It was during this period of severe restrictions on owning firearms that crime rates in general, and the murder rate in particular, began to rise in England. "As the number of legal firearms have dwindled, the numbers of armed crimes have risen," Professor Malcolm points out.

    In 1954, there were only a dozen armed robberies in London but, by the 1990s, there were more than a hundred times as many. In England, as in the United States, drastic crackdowns on gun ownership by law-abiding citizens were accompanied by ever greater leniency to criminals. In both countries, this turned out to be a formula for disaster.

    While England has not yet reached the American level of murders, it has already surpassed the United States in rates of robbery and burglary. Moreover, in recent years the murder rate in England has been going up under still more severe gun control laws, while the murder rate in the United States has been going down as more and more states have allowed private citizens to carry concealed weapons -- and have begun locking up more criminals.

    In both countries, facts have no effect whatever on the dogmas of gun control zealots. ...

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array mzmtg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwolsten View Post
    Their death rate is lower, but this is mainly because they don't have as many guns, and knives and other weapons are usually used instead, leaving horrible scars on the victims.

    Also, they only count murder cases that result in convictions in their crime statistics. Unsolved murders do not get counted and multiple murders commited by a single person are only counted as a single murder in the stats.

    Keep in mind that the murder case clearance rate for NYC is somewhere around 30%...

  11. #11
    Senior Member Array Fragman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mzmtg View Post
    Also, they only count murder cases that result in convictions in their crime statistics. Unsolved murders do not get counted and multiple murders commited by a single person are only counted as a single murder in the stats.

    Keep in mind that the murder case clearance rate for NYC is somewhere around 30%...
    Rubbish. The number of murders is the number of murders. I recall hearing something like that quoted before, but nothing to prove it other than some slanted internet article unable to back its figures up. As the crime figures there quote clearup rates of less than 100 percent, they are obviously counting unsolved too.

    Guys, the place is messed up, I for one have no intention of ever returning, but there is no need to resort to Brady style mis-information to make our point. The murder rate in the UK is considerably less than the US. Other ex-pats will confirm this. Will it remain like this? Who knows. Is other crime higher there? I would say definitely so.

    I should also point out that a very significant number of the murders in the US are what we called in the UK 'black on black'. Nothing to do with color, but to do with criminals killing criminals. My sincere apologies if this is an offensive term over here and moderators please feel free to correct.

    Now, if you take out that element (which is WAY larger over here than in the UK), you kind of narrow the gap on the murder rate.

  12. #12
    Member Array bones's Avatar
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    My family escaped England 300 years ago. It was nutty even then.
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  13. #13
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    Niiiiice!

  14. #14
    Senior Member Array mark555's Avatar
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    +1to bones, couldn’t agree with you more.
    "Hell of a thing, killin' a man. Take away all he's got and all he's ever gonna have."
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