107 year old in altercation with SWAT:loses and dies

This is a discussion on 107 year old in altercation with SWAT:loses and dies within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; 107-year-old man killed in police shootout, authorities say - CNN.com...

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Thread: 107 year old in altercation with SWAT:loses and dies

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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    107 year old in altercation with SWAT:loses and dies

    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

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    VIP Member Array tdave's Avatar
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    Don't shoot at people regardless of your age. I would have thought they could have waited until nap time and taken him though.
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    SWAT just had to go in, didn't they! Couldn't wait the old guy out.
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    Makes you think maybe he just decided to go out smokin' rather than ending it in some nursing home.
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    Sad deal and unfortunate outcome. I can't help but wonder about the affects of dementia and/or meds?
    Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.

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    This guy didnt give the police a whole lot of choice. The police did try less lethal options. Old dude was an imediate, and real danger to everyone shooting through closed doors, and out the window. Sad as heck, but I cant fault the police. Dead from a 107 year old guy is exactly the same as dead fro a 16 year old banger.

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by From the article
    ... he fired through the door, authorities said.

    After unsuccessful negotiations, officers slipped gas into the room through a window, he said, and Isadore fired rounds at them.

    The officers broke the bedroom door and hurled in a distraction device, and Isadore fired at them again ... Officers returned fire, killing him.
    Didn't give LE much choice at all.

    Don't want to be stopped violently and possibly permanently? Don't fire at police knowingly, repeatedly. Bad juju, beyond being unlawful and just plain wrong. Bad choices, and you get what you get.
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    All of us feel compassion for the elderly and children and this is very sad for sure .
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    Quote Originally Posted by welder516 View Post
    All of us feel compassion for the elderly and children and this is very sad for sure .
    But I have zero compassion for someone who chooses to knowingly shoot at LE through doors, multiple times. One would think 107yrs is plenty long enough to learn that lesson. Attempting to murder innocents is the path of criminals and gets you counted with them, irrespective of age.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    But I have zero compassion for someone who chooses to knowingly shoot at LE through doors, multiple times. One would think 107yrs is plenty long enough to learn that lesson. Attempting to murder innocents is the path of criminals and gets you counted with them, irrespective of age.
    From my post one could say i give or excuse the behavior in no way do i excuse his actions . ( I should have finished my post )
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    But I have zero compassion for someone who chooses to knowingly shoot at LE through doors, multiple times. One would think 107yrs is plenty long enough to learn that lesson. Attempting to murder innocents is the path of criminals and gets you counted with them, irrespective of age.
    Generally speaking I agree but there's a lot more that we don't know than what we do.

    At his age, it's highly possible that he didn't know who he was shooting at. If he's suffering from some of the mental conditions that frequently are found in older folks, and he's way older than most that are afflicted, then he may have been completely unaware of the 'rights' and 'wrongs' of that situation. I'd have to know a lot more before I passed any judgement on either his actions or the police actions. As a general rule I usually assume that LE are doing what they need to do but I'm well aware that this is not always the case and LE are made up of humans who, like everyone else, don't always make the 'right' decisions once the dust has settled.
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    I don't think the police had much choice in the matter. You know a bullet shot by a centenarian is still bad news.
    Last edited by Str8upguy; September 8th, 2013 at 03:56 PM.
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    It appears that he was the only one in the room. They had a camera in the room so they could keep an eye on him. Couldn't they have cleared the area to insure no harm to others and wait him out. He may have been a danger to himself, but no more so than the SWAT team was to him.

    The story leaves a lot out, like how long they were on scene before they shot him. Was it 20 minutes or 20 hours? I agree that if you are in your right mind, you are well aware of the actions of someone who shoots at police, but we don't know his level of dementia.

    Not enough to know as usual on CNN. They do have a tendency to not support police, so when more of the story comes out, I expect they will find fault with the SWAT team.
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lionround View Post
    The story leaves a lot out, like how long they were on scene before they shot him. Was it 20 minutes or 20 hours? I agree that if you are in your right mind, you are well aware of the actions of someone who shoots at police, but we don't know his level of dementia.
    You're correct, that there aren't a lot of details. From the couple of articles I have seen, the police made a couple attempts to approach and were clearly in negotiations with the man. No indication of outright inability to communicate, to negotiate, to recognize people coming to the doors. He was aware and cognizant of the situation sufficiently to shoot in at least a couple instances soon after recognizing folks at the door. Doesn't mean he fully appreciated all aspects or that he had zero dementia/senility. But it's not as though you need to show a high level of that when that combination of circumstances is happening. Lives are being put at risk because of the man. They are the innocents. The one putting those lives at risk, OTOH, is something else. I'm sure folks there would have preferred to take him unharmed. But he wasn't having any of that. Just like a rabid 20yr old whose coked-up spree gets stopped cold, more or less, with the added nod to negotiations and attempts to bring him down easily.
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    Way to much not known. Did the dead suspect assault the two? Or had he also been assaulted and was sequestered in his room fighting for his life?

    In a war you learn young women children and old people can kill you I am guessing police work is the same.

    We hear a lot of what went on with no time frame. If this all happened in a 2 hour time frame possibly a little patience would have worked.

    I certainly fear a visit from a police force far more than I do a bad guy.

    Didn't sound like he was shooting unless the police took action so it wasn't like the neighbors in danger if the police had pulled back and held a position.

    Sad to see a person who saw the first phone, auto, car, electric lights etc go out in gun fire from those that protect and serve.
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