Good training video of an arrest in Temple Texas over 2a rights.

Good training video of an arrest in Temple Texas over 2a rights.

This is a discussion on Good training video of an arrest in Temple Texas over 2a rights. within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I searched Temple Texas and Christopher Grisham and could not find where this had been discussed. I Wanted to post that a verdict was reached ...

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Thread: Good training video of an arrest in Temple Texas over 2a rights.

  1. #1
    New Member Array rcsoftexas's Avatar
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    Good training video of an arrest in Temple Texas over 2a rights.

    I searched Temple Texas and Christopher Grisham and could not find where this had been discussed.

    I Wanted to post that a verdict was reached and felt it had already been discussed. Since i could not find it I will post everything about it.

    Christopher Grisham was helping his son earn his Eagle scout merit badge for a 10 mile hike. Rural area, public road, about a hour from where I live. This is Christopher Grisham's personal video which his son finished shoot while the Temple Police detain him. Mr. Grisham is an Iraq Veteran.

    The videos may contain a couple very slight vulgarities. PG. Nothing major.

    Christopher Grisham: Veteran Assaulted - YouTube

    This is the dash cam tapes which police released. They put the dash cam videos together with Mr. Grishams video.

    Complete Dashcam Video of Illegal Arrest of Army Master Sergeant CJ Grisham - Texas - March 2013 - YouTube

    This is the announced verdict.

    Jury says Grisham should pay $2,000 fine - Temple Daily Telegram: News


    IMHO, this is a sad situation. Mr. Grisham did not interact responsibly with the police. He did not exactly resist. He did withdraw from the officer near the beginning and he did grab his gun in a questionable manner. The conversation was of disrespect, taunt, and ridicule by Mr. Grisham. It is unfortunate because this all could have resulted in Mr. Grisham finishing the hike with his son.

    That is just my opinion. I am not a attorney so wanted to get your thoughts. What is lawful and what could have, should have been done differently for a better outcome?


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array Ghost1958's Avatar
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    Personally I think the cops were heavy handed, and once again stopping someone legally ocing for no reason other than they could. Which led up to an arrest of a person doing nothing illegal who should not have been stopped and the state getting 2 grand out of it.

    Having said that everything went south when Grisham put instinctively put his hand on the rifle when the officer started to remove it. Officer had already told him not to touch it. If not for that one move that I dont think he realized he did until he had already done it, I dont think there would have been an arrest. Officer and supervisor were obviously looking for a reason too but I dont think they could have come up with anything had Grisham not made that one bad move.
    " It is sad governments are chief'ed by the double tongues." quote Ten Bears Movie Outlaw Josie Wales

  3. #3
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    I'm not sure about anyone else but I would never reach for someone elses weapon, especially if I didnt know them. I dont give a damn if you are a cop, friend or stranger, if you reach for my weapon without notifying me first I will instinctively grab it and step back. That was an extremely bold move by the officer and a bad one at that.

    If I was being slammed into a car for doing nothing wrong I would be pissed as well. Did CJ get a little disrespectful? Sure but if I am being handcuffed, put up against a car and have a gun pointed at me I want to know why. And "you're carrying a rifle and I just want to make sure it is okay" is not a good enough answer. As it has been said oc'ing a rifle in Tx is not illegal and this shouldnt have escalated as quickly or as far as it did.
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    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Humm, AR, camera at the ready, over zealous officer, mouthy civilian and stupid caller. These are all the makings of a bad day and a total waste of everyone's time. If the guy and his son would have been off road hiking, I doubt if he would have been stopped that day.

    Don't want to speak to the right or wrong of it, only that it's not my cup of tea to press the legality of the right. While I admire those that have the cojones to do so, IMO it's a huge gamble and dependent on the interaction between the two or more individuals involved.
    looks to to me that he got what he set out to achieve. Now drink it up.
    rcsoftexas likes this.
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  5. #5
    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    So basically, he was convicted of contempt of cop. The cops initially made up a law "rude display of a firearm," then arrest him because he instinctively resists when the officer grabs his AR without informing him of what he was doing...

    Thankfully, the man is appealing, and will hopefully win, and then sue the crap out of this department.

    Secondly, he did not have a video camera ready. His son turned it on after the police began getting aggressive with him.


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    VIP Member Array StormRhydr's Avatar
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    I have been very greatly bothered about this open carry issue. Until sandy hook, I was opposed to it. However, after hearing all the comments by REGULAR folks after sandy hook, about how they didnt feel comfortable around people with guns, etc I have changed my mind.

    Btw, that "I dont feel comfortable around those with guns" stuff, translates into "so lets lets make laws to not have them around me and my little bundle of joys." It didnt matter that people point out that they are around people with guns all the time. They couldnt see any guns, and did not want to.

    They could only comprehend that cops, criminals, or the mentally insane carried guns, and they were not too crazy about running into any of those 3 groups....and since they "didnt feel comfortable", they would be just fine getting rid of guns around them.

    SO, isnt it about time some of the groups that represent us spent money on open carry videos to education the public??? A variation of that would be explaining the various forms of carry. Ie, Joe likes to conceal carry. His wife, Jane likes open carry. And thats their right.
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    So much for the adage about being judged by a jury of twelve. They watched these same videos we watched, and said guilty.
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  8. #8
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badey View Post
    So basically, he was convicted of contempt of cop. The cops initially made up a law "rude display of a firearm," then arrest him because he instinctively resists when the officer grabs his AR without informing him of what he was doing...

    Thankfully, the man is appealing, and will hopefully win, and then sue the crap out of this department.

    Secondly, he did not have a video camera ready. His son turned it on after the police began getting aggressive with him.


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    Yes he did... He said out loud at the moment he was pushed onto the hood of the car that he was recording the event. At one point he called his son over to get the camera. The dash cam clearly backs that up. Carry on.
    rcsoftexas likes this.
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luke 22:36

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  9. #9
    New Member Array rcsoftexas's Avatar
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    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Badey View Post
    ," then arrest him because he instinctively resists when the officer grabs his AR without informing him of what he was doing...

    Secondly, he did not have a video camera ready. His son turned it on after the police began getting aggressive with him.
    Excellent points, IMO, it is obvious Mr. Grisham retracted out of instinct. Grisham allowed the officer, even though the officer most certainly should have announced to Grisham first. The officer drove up on a large man escorting/forcing the boy who was not dressed in his scouting uniform, down a very rural road. The officer first should have waited for another officer to arrive and then both approach. Then explain why they felt the need to investigate the situation. Ask them both their names. Explain, " Mr. Grisham I would like for you to continue to remain calm just as you have so far for us and allow me to touch your weapon. Then I may ask you to hand your weapon to to me for further inspection." Respect Goes a long way on both sides. Instead Mr Grisham calmly let the officer grab the A/R but when he felt the officer pull on the A/R Mr. Grishams training instinct to protect his weapon kicked in. I do not really feel the officer over reacted by taking Mr. Grisham to the hood of his car. Nor was he over aggressive. I do not think he had good control of Mr. Grisham but his instinct as the officer on duty also kicked in. The officer was also very lucky Mr. Grisham controlled his own military training while the officer pulled his service weapon and forced Mr. Grishim to the hood of the police car.

    Bottom line here is Mr. Grisham was in the the officers jurisdiction at this point.

    Mr. Grisham did have the camera first for documentation of the 10 mile hike. Then gave it to his son. Antagonizing the situation but I would have done the same thing. Here again I would have calmly explained why my son was going to continue taping. The officer let Grisham hand his son the camera and never asked them to stop recording.

    Everyone appeared to be trying to diffuse or get a level of respect moving but Grisham just continued to taunt.

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    Once again, proof that you rarely if ever win a roadside debate with a law enforcement officer.

    Better to comply at the time and then take your battles up later when you can do so with the assistance of legal counsel.
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  11. #11
    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gottabkiddin View Post
    Yes he did... He said out loud at the moment he was pushed onto the hood of the car that he was recording the event. At one point he called his son over to get the camera. The dash cam clearly backs that up. Carry on.
    I could be mistaken, but the article that originally documented this said his son was recording.

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...of-boy-scouts/

    Also, I can't find the article at the moment, but I had read elsewhere that the reason he didn't have footage of the officer grabbing for the rifle is because the camera was not on...

    I will watch the footage again


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  12. #12
    Senior Member Array ugh762x39's Avatar
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    First and foremost, the Police must have probable cause to stop and detain. Everything that comes after hinges on the initial PC. More and more people are OC'ing legally and the Police Departments need to recognize this and evolve their guidelines accordingly. If they do not do this on their own, then they need to be forced to change by being inundated with lawsuits!

    Civility works wonders. The officer could have driven along side of them, rolled a window down and asked..."whatcha' doing?"
    The reply would've been something like..."My son and I are doing a 15 mile hike for his Eagle Badge." "Hey, that's great! Have a good hike!"

    The officer could've driven on and all would have been fine. The Police have to change their policies and tactics or they are going to turn a lot of Good People against them! Their job is hard enough already, why make it harder?
    rcsoftexas likes this.
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  13. #13
    VIP Member Array OutWestSystems's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ugh762x39 View Post
    First and foremost, the Police must have probable cause to stop and detain. Everything that comes after hinges on the initial PC. More and more people are OC'ing legally and the Police Departments need to recognize this and evolve their guidelines accordingly. If they do not do this on their own, then they need to be forced to change by being inundated with lawsuits!
    But police do have the right to stop and talk to you. They can talk to anyone they want to.

    Now in this case there is a lot of blame to go around. There is NO reason the officer should have grabbed the rifle. Now with that said, the guy was not very bright. You are not going to win an argument with an officer on the side of the road, you are going to end up in handcuffs.

    Both sides being polite would have gone a long way for none of this happening.
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  14. #14
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    Is this a news story about self defense? I'm not seeing that it is, and those are the only news stories allowed to be posted here as noted I don't know how many times all over this sub forum.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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