Pit bull Attack
This is a discussion on Pit bull Attack within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by HotGuns
Most counties here have a law that specificaly states that one can shoot any animal that poses a threat to any ...
December 19th, 2006 03:24 PM
That is the case in my county. We have horses and about 6 years ago a neighbor's dogs (wolf hybrids no less) were chasing them around the pasture nipping at their feet. I called the neighbor to come get his dog and to keep them secure so they wouldn't harass the horses anymore. I was trying to be neighborly. After grumbling a little he came and got them.
Originally Posted by HotGuns
A few weeks later they were back, so instead of calling the neighbor, my wife called animal control (I didn't want her to talk to the neighbor, no telling how he'd act). Animal Control told her that we had the right to take whatever means necessary to stop the dogs from harassing the horses, and would be protected from civil liability. She called me at the office and I called the neighbor, and told him to come get his dogs. This time he was belligerant and chewed me out over the phone. So I told him that the next time his dogs showed up on my property that I was gonna shoot them. He told me that I "had better not."
So the following Saturday the dogs are back in the field, chasing the horses. So I get my AR-15 and take out both dogs at about 300 yds, I call the Animal Control folks first, then when they show up I call the neighbor and tell him to come get his dogs. Needless to say he was mad, specially when the AC folks cited him for several violations of the leash law. I haven't had a problem with him since.
"You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone." - Al Capone
The second amendment is the reset button of our Constitution.
December 19th, 2006 11:07 PM
I trained retrievers for about 8 years Professionally. I Field Trialled all over the US and parts of Canada. I never had a single person bring me, say, a great dane to train, I never once saw a collie at a field trial, never saw a pit bull at one either. Now, why would you think this happened. All I ever was paid to train were Labradors, Chesepeakes, Goldens, a few Britts, never a pit bull??? I can tell you why, all the others do not have the INSTINCT to retrieve. It must be instinct, I have seen it in 4 week old retrievers. What instinct would you think a Pitt Bull is BORN with, not trained for, BORN WITH??? I can assure you that the best retriever trainer in the world could not make a pit bull retrieve ducks in ice cold water. So it is evidently not a TRAINED response. Folks that wonder why a pitt bull, doberman, rott, and other fighting breeds attack make me sit an wonder about them. What do you think those breeds were BRED for, what instinct do they enter this world with, it ain't retrieving, it ain't playing with babies. Not all Labradors make great retrievers, but, the majority of them succeed at it. Just like not all pit bulls attack animals and people, but, they are ALL born with that instinct.
December 19th, 2006 11:15 PM
Thanks for a great post, Cajun. (And welcome aboard!)
December 19th, 2006 11:20 PM
You cant imagine some of the calls I've been on that dealt with dogs getting shot. Someone will call 911 and report that someone has shot their dog and that they want them arrested.
Being a rural Deputy it happens and its not that uncommon. We've had some serious disputes going on over a period of time that all started overs someones dog and eventually it got shot.
Some people express amazement, disbelief and complete horror over the fact that there is no legal recourse when someone shoots their dog. What gets me is that they always put the blame on the person doing the shooting, it never seems to be the fault of the dog owner. Some people just refuse to be held responsible for the actions of their pets.
I've carried people to jail that harrassed,threatened,intimidated and even assaulted someone for shooting their dog. They just cant accept the fact that when a dog is endangering livestock its fair game to anyone that shoots it and that the law actually protects the shooter from legal recourse.
We have more livestock and poultry in this county than we do people.Its a problem that never ends, and some times are worse than others.
I've often thought that if someone wanted to stay neighbors, the best thing to do with a problematic dog was just to shoot it and drag it to the highway. That way the owners would just think that their poor little canine got ran over and the whole neigborhood would fare better for it. Its the best way to avoid the heartache and hard feelings that can continue on for years and years.
hecks...the next step towards registration and confiscation.
AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
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December 20th, 2006 08:29 AM
Read Cajun's post. It IS the breed, not the deed. One less pit bull means a safer neighborhood (you know, like bad guys).
Originally Posted by J. Brandon
December 20th, 2006 11:52 AM
Well, here's my take on it - if the vast majority of murders in my neighborhood were committed by short, red haired white guys wearing purple sweat shirts and green spandex pants, then naturally I would become more careful when seeing a short, red haired white guy in a purple sweat shirt and green spandex pants. Of course I would not shoot them just for fitting the "profile"- they might well just be an innocent person with poor taste in clothes. However, I would exercise additional caution - immediately going from "yellow" to "Orange".
The same is true of Pit Bulls. I won't shoot one on sight just because it's a Pit, but they do seem to be involved in the majority of maulings. Therefore, additional caution is warranted.
I can tell you that after seeing my beautiful 5 yr old daughter's face covered in blood, I'll NEVER let one get that close to her again, either. If a person owns such a dog, it is their responsibility to keep it under their control. If they fail to do so, then I will help them. (They just might not approve of my methodology.)
December 20th, 2006 12:07 PM
Nice post, Gary. I agree wholeheartedly. I have some sympathy for the "good" pit bull owners getting their preferred breed trashed. However, sympathy and caution are not mutual exclusive.
Also, kudos on not shooting the dog's owner, which probably would have been my second though after the hospital. Hopefully I would have calmed down quickly.
December 20th, 2006 04:54 PM
I did read Cajun's post. His experience with retrievers makes him an expert on Labradors, not Pit Bull Terriers. I've bred these animals for over 18 years and have never once had an animal of mine attack, maul, bite, chase, or attempt to harm anyone other than the man who broke into my home and was helping himself to my precious gun collection. It is NOT the breed and you would probably realize it if you did some homework on the subject. This breed has become the thug's dog of choice due to the fact that they are very powerful, very loyal, and will be whatever the owner trains it to be. Those traits, when combined with an irresponsible or stupid owner, will result in tragedy for the dog and possibly an unsuspecting pet or person. I am an expert on these animals and I will tell you that if they are raised and socialized in a loving environment they are no more apt to attack than the Labradors that were inaccurately used to draw a comparison to instinctual behavior. These dogs have been around for over a century and just now, in the past 20 or so years, there is a rash of attacks. Why do you think that is? The dogs are now being poorly bred and sold to less than desirable types of people. Not to mention the hundreds of dog attacks that occur every day in this country that aren't spoon fed to you on the nightly news because the culprit was not a Pit Bull. The same thing could happen to any breed. This happened because an irresponsible owner purchased a dog that he wasn't capable of dealing with and then let it roam around. The fact that it was a Pit Bull is a mere detail that is completely irrelevant to the situation. All dogs that are not well trained and socialized will act in the same manner as this dog did if they are of sufficient size. Anyone that says different knows very little of animal behavior. All dogs are born with the instinct to chase down and kill animals. They're carnivores and that's what carnivores do. We own dogs but tend to forget that they are not as far removed from the wolf as we think they are. Inflammatory statements about dead Pit Bulls aside, that's what it all boils down to.
Originally Posted by Ranger
December 20th, 2006 07:19 PM
The farmers in the area have told me that the rule of the country when you see a dog running loose is S.S.S. Shoot, Shovel, Shut up.
It continually amazes me how many people who's dog is a problem when contacted are "What my puppy!" over the last 30 years in the area I have run into bozo's that will let their dog's out to run loose then call them back when they get home many hours later. This has resulted in numerous animal attack issues in the area, these dogs packed and killed any target of opportunity, small animals, other dogs, and attacked small children, it only took 17 calls to county animal control to get them to act, in that particular incident.
A dog when on the roam will cover a 5 mile area. Proof in point a couple of years back some old woman wrote into the local paper that some rotten person had poisoned her poor dog, but when the rest of the story came out, it seemed that the animal was poisoned by a fertilizer that smells like something the dog would love to eat.
Several dogs ended up being poisoned by this chemical, the clincher is they were able to trace a MT bag of it they found with one of the dogs to a farm, that was over 3 miles from any of the dead dogs owners homes If you truly care for your dog you will keep it in your yard or under your immediate control, because if you do not and it travels some place it is not suppose to be it can become fair game.
An update on the current episode after many more calls to county animal control they still are belligerent, arrogant, and "not my job" BS they are of no use as far as I can see, and it may be time to see if they can be held accountable also.
"The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century
December 20th, 2006 08:19 PM
time to go to court. you state charges were file so you have got them by the short hairs. find out who is the owner of the dog, this is suite one. and the county is on the line for not picking up the dog, suite two. you should be able to get monies for damages from the county and the dog owner. check with several lawers and see which one see yours side of the problem.
December 20th, 2006 08:39 PM
When allowed to roam, especially in packs, dogs will "revert" back to a pack lifestyle. When wolves hunt, they do so in packs. Once again, another good reason to keep your animals locked up. I personally feel that if you let your dog run around loose, then you really don't care what happens to it anyway.
December 23rd, 2006 07:11 PM
I Used To Live In Michigan...
Worked in school admin...enough said...also had a small farm...goats, chickens, pigs, and a few ducks...
Originally Posted by Sheldon J
Had a neighbor's dog that used to come around, looking at the menu...
I called the neighbor several times...even took the dog home one time...still kept coming back...
Yep, he 'used' to come around...did I say 'used to'?
One always has to take care of the homefront!
Neighbor came looking for that dog after a few weeks...never could figure out where that dog went...it was a 'stumper'!
Proverbs 27:12 says: “The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it.”
Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member
December 31st, 2006 03:20 AM
Don't want to torque any one off, but i agree with gary, ranger and cajun. I'm sure there are lots or even most pit bulls that are all cuddly and lovable, but the facts are thaqt they are aggresive and like j. brandon said, they are loyal. My sister in law got a pit and it was great with her children and her and never even remotely acted dangerous. But one day her kids had a birthday party and the dog almost killed a kid that hugged her daughter. Of course the popular pit bull owner saying was uttered "he was always such a good dog, i didn't think he would hurt anyone. He was just protecting my daughter. he didn't know!!"
Then 5 years later(2005) my neighbors pitbulls came over to my parents property and beat the hell out of our black lab. Almost killed her. Called the neighbors and warned them to keep there dogs under control. They said ok and they were real sorry and it would never happen again.
Next day i could not find my german shorthair pointer. Webt over to the neighbors house to ask if they had seen her. They said no and they wuld keep an eye out.
I found her the next day, dead. The back of her neck had been torn out. I could look up from where i found her and see my neighbors property.
Now i had raised this dog from a tiny puppy and she was about 7 years old. Also worth about 600. I was very emotionable and i had my gun on me. It took every bit of restraint i had not to walk over and empty magazines into those evil things. We called the animal control and because we did not witness it, we had no proof. The guy that did come out and inspect my dog said he was sure it was them though. my dad and i went over to the neighbors and talked heatedly to the neighbors. At that time their pitbulls started to come after us. We retreated to the car. We are still in a legal battle with the neighbors to make them at least put up a fence(we live in the sticks and are seperated by a few acres.)
The point of this huge post is that pit bulls love their owner. They are loyal to a fault. They are over protective and deadly when they lock their jaws on something. We canceled easter egg hunting and birthday partys because we are afraid the kids will be killed or maimed.
The neighbors know that the pitbulls are under penalty of death if they get on our land again.
If your going to have a pit bull for a pet, realize that if they hurt someone on your land or someone elses, you are liable. They were bred for their fighting abilities and they have a trigger somewhere in their head that will set them off.
just my 207 cents.
Last edited by Gary Brommeland; December 31st, 2006 at 11:58 AM.
Reason: minor word change to make post more family friendly
"In those days, there was a lot more respect for other people and it showed in peoples values.... Today the word value means nothing more than something you get on the $1 menu at McDonald's." -BARK'N
December 31st, 2006 10:17 AM
This is probably information too late, but if the perp-dog had been packed in ice after its demise, proof would be on its lips, face, oral cavity, claws, digestive tract, etc. that it was in fact the perpetrator of the assult on the victim-animals in question. DNA would be evidentary thereby nullifying the owner's (if one be found) probable denial that his/her dawg was at fault. Suggestion of the use of the DNA may even be enough without going through the time and expense of actually collecting specimens and obtaining test results.
December 31st, 2006 03:23 PM
Pitbulls are are dogs. All dogs can cause problems. All dogs can attack and will, if not properly socialized and trained, even those properly trained can still screw up. I am not championing the pitbull. I don't own any nor will I. My father use to breed them when I was a kid, he also bred dobermans, too. The dogs that were the "family" dogs were gentle and well socialized. The dogs that were breeding machines scared me. Our main pitbull stud;however, was the family dog. He was so tame that the neighbors stole him when they moved. Sure, even he could have attacked. But he never did while he was my dog.
Ranger: Your staunch belief in the "Breed not the Deed" is disconcerting. This smacks of the same black and white thinking that many anti-2nd ammendment folks have. I'm sure that you hold their arguments in high regards. I suppose we sometimes need scapegoats for bad human (in)actions...
When was the last time you read about a Labrador attacking? It happens...
"Girl savaged by Labrador as she plays"
Pomeranian Kills 6-Week-Old Girl
September 21, 2001
Is Breed to Blame in Fatal Dog Attack?
America should have license to carry "children" laws...
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