Perpetrator fatally shot by Boston homeowner

Perpetrator fatally shot by Boston homeowner

This is a discussion on Perpetrator fatally shot by Boston homeowner within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Perpetrator fatally shot by homeowner, second perp running away caught by police. Second perp, AND homeowner arrested... Why? Because it's Boston, Massachusetts, and police have ...

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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Perpetrator fatally shot by Boston homeowner

    Perpetrator fatally shot by homeowner, second perp running away caught by police.

    Second perp, AND homeowner arrested...

    Why? Because it's Boston, Massachusetts, and police have to make sure the homeowner was legally allowed to have his gun....


    Disgusting story with video, here: Boston police: Home invasion suspect fatally shot by homeowner - Boston News, Weather, Sports | FOX 25 | MyFoxBoston

    This was posted from my mobile device, links may be for mobile... Deal with it!
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Perhaps a bit harsh, but presumption of guilt can be an ugly thing. In a clear home invasion in which the only apparent reason for the citizen being arrested is being the one left standing, I have a hard time with how heavy-handed some places can treat folks. Of course, it's early stages and we only have the initial reports. No telling what the police actually have as evidence, indicators.

    Agreed, that presumption of innocence inherent in the "Castle" and "SYG" statutes makes far more sense. Got proof to the contrary? Then, fine, arrest for cause ... but not just because the person stopped a crime in his own home and is still standing.
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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    I'm of a mind that even if the homeowner is a criminal, or has a criminal past... He should have the right to defend his life against someone trying to take his...

    But, if he's a criminal, or has been, it might make it a bit more difficult to determine who was the aggressor... And yet, the resident's home should be his castle...

    There's a lot here that says the resident should have benefit of the doubt until he is actually deemed a criminal suspect...

    This was posted from my mobile device, links may be for mobile... Deal with it!
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    Distinguished Member Array Fitch's Avatar
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    I don't see why the defender was arrested either.

    Trying to create the scenario in my head, I find it difficult to get all the 'facts' in the story to line up. It was labeled a home invasion. To me that means they at least busted down the door and broke the plane of the door. Otherwise it's an attempted home invasion because they never got inside. The BG was shot on the stoop. That's usually a location just outside the front door. Did the one that got away enter the house and get back around the one on the stoop? Did the one on the stoop get hit because the defender missed the one that got away that was in the residence and he escaped in the confusion? Just trying to come up with scenarios for how this might have happened.

    I'll be interest to read follow up stores to see if they answer any of the questions.

    The Mass police arresting people who defend themselves doesn't surprise me at all. Police in all the rabidly anti-gun states have been getting rather thuggish lately.

    Fitch
    “The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety), by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.” by H. L. Mencken

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    VIP Member Array tdave's Avatar
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    It is a mindset a woman in Florida as I recall had a restraining order against her husband. He had previously disregarded it and beat her severely. A friend had loaned her a firearm. The husband returned and was breaking down her door she called 911 and he threatened to kill her. This was supposedly recorded on the 911 call. He succeeded in breaking down the door and she shot him to death. She was arrested jailed and tried and acquitted. The state Attorney General Janet Reno said "You can't kill some one with out at least going to trial!" I guess in all fairness if the husband had killed her he could have been tried also.
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    From the story:

    "Evans said the shooter was also taken into custody as police work to determine if his actions were justified. Investigators also planned to check the shooter's gun permit."

    Here is the portion of Massachusetts law which likely pertains here:

    "Section 8A. In the prosecution of a person who is an occupant of a dwelling charged with killing or injuring one who was unlawfully in said dwelling, it shall be a defense that the occupant was in his dwelling at the time of the offense and that he acted in the reasonable belief that the person unlawfully in said dwelling was about to inflict great bodily injury or death upon said occupant or upon another person lawfully in said dwelling, and that said occupant used reasonable means to defend himself or such other person lawfully in said dwelling. There shall be no duty on said occupant to retreat from such person unlawfully in said dwelling."
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    If the jackboots can violate the 4th amendment rights of its citizens after the Boston Marathon bombing, they'll have no qualms about arresting you for legally defending yourself.
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    Didn't the news video say the cops were trying to find out if the 'defender' actually lived at that address?

    While it appears at face value to be a legitimate defense of a home, there are too many loose ends to start drawing up the protest placards.
    Smitty
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    More loose ends than a frayed sweater.

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    VIP Member Array pittypat21's Avatar
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    The article said that it is not known if the "defender" is actually a resident. It also said he was taken into custody to determine if he was justified and that they planned on checking his gun permit as well.

    There's a lot more going on here than a justified, law-abiding homeowner being arrested to make sure he was legally allowed to own a gun, Oakchas.

    There is very little mentioned in the article. There are some things that could never be explained in an article, either.

    For one thing, we don't know any of the information that a cop with knowledge of the area would have. We don't know if this is a known trouble spot, if there is gang territory nearby (or if the area is technically in gang territory), if the "defender" has had run-ins with law enforcement before and is known to the responding LEOs, if there are certain facts pertaining to the situation itself that make it an iffy shooting, etc.
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    Member Array Vuva3rae's Avatar
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    The Boston Globe story (Home invader shot, killed by resident in Dorchester - News Local Massachusetts - Boston.com) says that “the invader who was shot ran from the apartment but collapsed on the front steps of the building.”

    The claim that “police are trying to determine if he was licensed to possess a firearm” is utter nonsense: in Massachusetts they can do that in a moment. I have heard that this area (around Esmond Street in Dorcester) has lots of gang and drug activity.

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    Senior Member Array Bigsteve113's Avatar
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    In my neck of the woods 9 out of 10 home invasions are drug dealers robbing drug dealers.......just something to keep in mind til more facts are available.
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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pittypat21 View Post
    The article said that it is not known if the "defender" is actually a resident. It also said he was taken into custody to determine if he was justified and that they planned on checking his gun permit as well.

    There's a lot more going on here than a justified, law-abiding homeowner being arrested to make sure he was legally allowed to own a gun, Oakchas.

    There is very little mentioned in the article. There are some things that could never be explained in an article, either.

    For one thing, we don't know any of the information that a cop with knowledge of the area would have. We don't know if this is a known trouble spot, if there is gang territory nearby (or if the area is technically in gang territory), if the "defender" has had run-ins with law enforcement before and is known to the responding LEOs, if there are certain facts pertaining to the situation itself that make it an iffy shooting, etc.
    All of your surmise may in fact be true.

    If I am not a resident of your house but happen to be visiting when your home is invaded by armed thugs, and I kill one, am I any less justified in doing so?

    If I am a reformed felon visiting your home under the same circumstances and you give me a gun with which to defend myself and/or you... Am I any less justified in killing an armed robber?

    Self defense is a basic human right. Is anyone legitimately barred from it?

    This was posted from my mobile device, links may be for mobile... Deal with it!
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    VIP Member Array pittypat21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    All of your surmise may in fact be true.

    If I am not a resident of your house but happen to be visiting when your home is invaded by armed thugs, and I kill one, am I any less justified in doing so?

    If I am a reformed felon visiting your home under the same circumstances and you give me a gun with which to defend myself and/or you... Am I any less justified in killing an armed robber?

    Self defense is a basic human right. Is anyone legitimately barred from it?

    This was posted from my mobile device, links may be for mobile... Deal with it!
    My answer to those questions would be "no". But who knows what different states say. But my point had nothing to do with his residency making the shooting legitimate. I mentioned the bit about his residency because both you and the article's title state that the shooter was the "homeowner", when that isn't confirmed.

    What I was trying make a point of is that simply shooting two alleged BGs doesn't automatically make you justified, either. There is always more to a situation than simply Shooter, Bullet, and BG.

    That, and that you can't make such a claim as you did in your OP when there simply aren't facts there to support it. A person shooting two more people does not a justified-shooting-by-homeowner make. And an arrest of the shooter with the phrase "planned on checking his gun permit as well" tacked on does not mean that he was arrested because they had to make sure he could legally own the gun he used. If you're arrested in connection with a shooting, I'm sure they'd be checking your permit as a matter of protocol - not necessarily as the basis for the arrest.
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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    I understand what you're saying... My mistake that he wasn't necessarily the homeowner... He may have been a tenant, or visitor.

    You're absolutely correct that shooter, bullet, bad guy.. Does not a legitimate self defense claim make.

    It was the police that made the comment about holding him to determine his gun ownership status... So I assume that is their primary reason for holding him.. Why not, "he it's a suspected barred person in possession of a firearm" if that was the case? Again, LEO made the statement.

    The states with strong anti gun regulations make self defense, even in the home, difficult. D.C. prior to Heller, a prime example... And some states were better than others. Illinois, prior to becoming shall issue, even had a law disregarding permit status (maybe it was Chicago) if a gun was used in the home in self defense....

    There is yet not enough information to make a solid determination, in any regard, in this story... But, my gut tells me that it very well may have been legitimate self defense, even if the possession of the gun may have been questionable...

    Perhaps there will be enough media follow up to know more... But that is most likely ONLY if the "defender" was criminally acting...

    If it was completely legitimate, we may never heart another word on it, IMO.



    This was posted from my mobile device, links may be for mobile... Deal with it!
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

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