OH: GJ "no bills " home defender," Indicts invader.

OH: GJ "no bills " home defender," Indicts invader.

This is a discussion on OH: GJ "no bills " home defender," Indicts invader. within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Someone in another sub forum asked about "self defense insurance." I posit that if you know the law as it applies to you defending yourself, ...

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Thread: OH: GJ "no bills " home defender," Indicts invader.

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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    OH: GJ "no bills " home defender," Indicts invader.

    Someone in another sub forum asked about "self defense insurance."

    I posit that if you know the law as it applies to you defending yourself, you will not be jailed, tried, or otherwise brought into the justice system in a devastating manner... in most cases.

    Story on Ohio home defender Here
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    I am pleased to see this. I was never able for the life of me to understand why he was charged in the first place. Some prosecutor gone nuts. Now can he "bill" the prosecutor for lost time and other expenses?
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    This is as it should be. No one should have to worry about getting prosecuted for defending themself or home. When a prosecutor tries to bring a charge like this against someone they should have to pay a fine. And if it continues they should be fired for incompetence.
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    Just because the shooter wasn't indicted doesn't mean that the criminal or some crazy family member won't sue him somewhere down the line.

    We SHOULDN'T need legal protections if we follow the law, but the fact is there are too many attorneys in the world who are looking for the next big lawsuit. It isn't just or right, but it is the nature of our society.

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    Sounds like an over zealous prosecutor trying to make a name for himself to me! The homeowner never should have been charged in the first place! Ohio has a "Castle Doctrine", so there must be something missing in this story or the county prosecutor is an incompetent fool! Just my .02.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickyD View Post
    Just because the shooter wasn't indicted doesn't mean that the criminal or some crazy family member won't sue him somewhere down the line.

    We SHOULDN'T need legal protections if we follow the law, but the fact is there are too many attorneys in the world who are looking for the next big lawsuit. It isn't just or right, but it is the nature of our society.
    And most states provide protection from civil suits in an act of self defense... to varying degrees.
    Rats!
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    I suppose

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    Quote Originally Posted by farsidefan1 View Post
    I am pleased to see this. I was never able for the life of me to understand why he was charged in the first place. Some prosecutor gone nuts. Now can he "bill" the prosecutor for lost time and other expenses?
    If he can he should. If he does and the DA is found to be at fault all expenses incurred by the DA should be born by the DA not the taxpayers of the county the DA represents. Otherwise the DA will learn nothing.
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    Senior Member Array CommonCents's Avatar
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    unfortunately the homeowner now has to worry about revenge by the perp after he serves his burglary charges, assuming he's convicted.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickyD View Post
    Just because the shooter wasn't indicted doesn't mean that the criminal or some crazy family member won't sue him somewhere down the line.

    We SHOULDN'T need legal protections if we follow the law, but the fact is there are too many attorneys in the world who are looking for the next big lawsuit. It isn't just or right, but it is the nature of our society.
    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    And most states provide protection from civil suits in an act of self defense... to varying degrees.
    All states should have laws such as this in FL:
    776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.—
    (1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.

    (2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.

    [This is the reason G.Z. was not initially arrested as so many demanded, only after political pressure was applied by certain peoples.
    ]
    (3) The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1).

    [This helps keep the law dogs away as well as it's illegal for lawyers to contact victims or complainants first.]

    Quote Originally Posted by CommonCents View Post
    unfortunately the homeowner now has to worry about revenge by the perp after he serves his burglary charges, assuming he's convicted.
    If the "perp" hasn't learned his lesson the first go-round, he's more than welcome to get shot again.
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    Not every state offers civil protections, and even those that do don't protect you from being sued, they ony protect you if you can convince a court or jury that a shooting was justified.

    Look, I am on your side, but I am also a realist. The fact is you could drop a small fortune defending a righteous shooting in any state. You may prevail in the end, but it could still cost you a pretty penny to get there.

    And, I do like FL's take on reimbursing attorney's fees - it must help mitigate a lot of this noise.
    Last edited by RickyD; March 27th, 2014 at 03:44 PM. Reason: Additional thought
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    Senior Member Array Hatrix's Avatar
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    I actually believe Ohio Law states that a Perp or their family can't sue if said perp was shot/injured/killed during the commission of a felony, which this case would fall under.

    Not gonna go searching through all the Codes for verification, but it was a subject covered by the Instructor in my CC Class a few years back.
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    OP you can know the law better than the Supreme Justices.. but if local LEO or DA decided to arrest or charge you, then one would have to go to court to prove who is correct and that costs $'s
    Not to mention civil lawsuits brought by the BG or their family once the criminal part has been settled, even if found Not Guilty
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickyD View Post
    Not every state offers civil protections, and even those that do don't protect you from being sued, they ony protect you if you can convince a court or jury that a shooting was justified.

    Look, I am on your side, but I am also a realist. The fact is you could drop a small fortune defending a righteous shooting in any state. You may prevail in the end, but it could still cost you a pretty penny to get there.

    And, I do like FL's take on reimbursing attorney's fees - it must help mitigate a lot of this noise.
    We're both on the same side... And, you are right, any one of us could end up financially ruined by an act of self defense. Even if we are legally and morally right. In Iowa, when we go through CWP course, most instructors will tell you that you can indeed be morally and legally right, yet civilly liable... In the end that may not be 100% true... but it might cost you to find out... Iowa has no specific castle doctrine, yet the section of law that deals with reasonable force says you have no duty to retreat in your home or place of business...

    704.1 Reasonable force.
    “Reasonable force” is that force and no more which a reasonable person, in like circumstances, would judge to be necessary to prevent an injury or loss and can include deadly force if it is reasonable to believe that such force is necessary to avoid injury or risk to one’s life or safety or the life or safety of another, or it is reasonable to believe that such force is necessary to resist a like force or threat. Reasonable force, including deadly force, may be used even if an alternative course of action is available if the alternative entails a risk to life or safety, or the life or safety of a third party, or requires one to abandon or retreat from one’s dwelling or place of business or employment.
    Iowa code, in another section; states that you are not civilly liable for the use of such "reasonable force" in protecting self or property or even a third party.

    707.6 Civil liability.
    No person who injures the aggressor through application of reasonable force in defense of the person’s person or property may be held civilly liable for such injury.
    No person who injures the aggressor through application of reasonable force in defense of a second person may be held civilly liable for such injury.
    704 is in Crime Control:Force--Reasonable or Deadly--Defenses
    707 is in Crime Control: Homicide and related crimes

    And our laws are "easy" to find... Florida's are hard... and so are many other states.
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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parrisk View Post
    OP you can know the law better than the Supreme Justices.. but if local LEO or DA decided to arrest or charge you, then one would have to go to court to prove who is correct and that costs $'s
    Not to mention civil lawsuits brought by the BG or their family once the criminal part has been settled, even if found Not Guilty
    And NO "insurance" can bail you out of the former, until you have been found not guilty. You can not buy insurance for criminal activity... PERIOD. And, as with the judicial system: you may be innocent until proven guilty, but you still wait for trial to PROVE that lack of guilt... incarcerated or not, solely dependent on the depth of your pockets.

    Civil liability is a whole nuther animal... but 3/5'ths of states protect the "not guilty" from civil liability... And YOU live in one of those STATES. An unscrupulous lawyer may take fees from those claiming civil injury... but a judge will throw it out.
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    Rats!
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    I suppose

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parrisk View Post
    OP you can know the law better than the Supreme Justices.. but if local LEO or DA decided to arrest or charge you, then one would have to go to court to prove who is correct and that costs $'s
    Not to mention civil lawsuits brought by the BG or their family once the criminal part has been settled, even if found Not Guilty
    Ohio shootings generally will go before a Grand Jury.
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