Armed Brothers stop road rage....

This is a discussion on Armed Brothers stop road rage.... within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; My opinion and read toward this differs significantly from the rest of you guys on this situation... If you are carrying, legally and/or licensed, and ...

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Thread: Armed Brothers stop road rage....

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    My opinion and read toward this differs significantly from the rest of you guys on this situation...

    If you are carrying, legally and/or licensed, and find yourself involved in feces being thrown at fans do know that there is great potential that others in the background might be CCWs as well...and see you yourself as a BG whether you discharge any rounds or not. Worst if you are scary/intimidating looking, an ethnic minority, or simply dressed in a way folks don't next to Godly then yeah you too can wind up like Roberson in this case, or even worst.

    These two brothers broke several laws (in some states) and general rules of proper CCW conduct:

    * First they were not in danger and turned their car around to go after trouble, rather than immediately stop to dial 911 and be good witnesses.

    * Second they drove over to and exited their cars with their guns in the air going into trouble (!). Had Roberson been an actual bad guy and fired on them, missed, and they returned fire with a hit or worst kill, guess who might very well find themselves being in court defending their freedom if not bank account. Yep, the brothers. Why? Because they are not cops and having a CCW permit is not deputization. They were not in immediate mortal danger and made a concious _decision_ to seek out as much and place themselves in the middle of it and then to escalate things further by coming in with guns drawn...like cops which they are not.

    * Third they threatened Roberson who at that time per their own statement had repocketed his weapon and was standing there. So what if he had 'crazy eyes' or whatever, what the hell does that mean? I too would have crazy eyes if I just was bashed in the rear, accosted, and then assaulted (brandishing of a weapon is assault), only to deploy my own weapon as countermeasure toward saving my own skin. Yeah, you bet ya my eyes will be on gimbals and my response to others immediately afterward who are running up on me might not be all that pleasant either. Robersons responses were entirely normal and understandable, even to some degree his firing on the other motorist gunman first in a defensive manner.

    Lastly if you do find yourself in the paper please for the love of God, all of our 2A & hard earned CCW rights, and for the sake of decorum too...please DO NOT pose with your firearm all gangsta pimp smack down daddy style like these two fools did. Jeebus!
    They are representing not just themselves but us all and there are many many people out there just dying to have an excuse to take away our freedoms due to fear of everyday gun toting yahoos who act & look just like these two. Don't add fuel to their fire, please.

    Some folks see this story as a win.
    I personally do not as now one legal CCWr is in the clink and likely facing multiple charges to forever lose his gun rights and for a spell his personal freedom. Another group of BGs are on the loose and the article makes no mention toward arrest or even detention of the persons that ran into Roberson to start things. This story as well was originally pimped as road rager with a gun & permit (!) when it first came out a few days ago. As well now people are going to look at this picture and think that people like these two cowboy brothers represent all of us supporters of 2A and CCW, which of course is not the case.

    - Janq
    Last edited by Janq; March 9th, 2007 at 12:48 PM.
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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  3. #17
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    OUTSTANDING!
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  4. #18
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    These two brothers broke several laws (in some states) and general rules of proper CCW conduct:
    The relevant question is: Did they break the laws of the State of Tennesse? And apparently they did not. What the law says in other states is not relevant. If anything, this has been a poit expressed over and over in this board: Check your local laws since there is not one single universal legal answer to a confrontation.
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
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  5. #19
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Roberson was initially charged with reckless endangerment, so far as I've been able to gather.

    Question: Does anyone know where this has gone, yet? Has the full account of road rage against Roberson been appreciated by the police investigators, or has this remained a simple case of recklessly firing across a busy street (no matter the original argument that precipitated his "self defense" shooting)?
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  6. #20
    Senior Member Array Joshua M. Smith's Avatar
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    "A well regulated militia, necessary to the security of a free state..."

    I would say that a well armed society is pretty secure.

    Further, Indiana has a provision that almost compels you to arrest someone in the commission of a felony. It's under IC 35-33-1-4.

    I know we're not talking Indiana here, but it would seem that the same principles apply.

    Josh <><

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miggy View Post
    The relevant question is: Did they break the laws of the State of Tennesse? And apparently they did not. What the law says in other states is not relevant. If anything, this has been a poit expressed over and over in this board: Check your local laws since there is not one single universal legal answer to a confrontation.
    Whether they broke laws in TN to be specific is an unknown as it was not mentioned in the articles.
    If so and whether the local DA chooses to go after them is specific to his/her own discretion and the political landscape.

    Additionally as also relevant is what the laws have to say toward Roberson and his own defense against those who allegedly attacked him. What of him and his legaltiy of action which precipatated the final result?

    Regardless of legality in TN of the brothers actions, or Robersons, the situation is a mess and is not advisable for folks to look to as an exemplar of a succesful concealed carry deployment or of persons who choose to do so, even as obviously all three involved do resemble some of us if not represent us all.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    While I partly agree with what Janq has said, living here in the area where this incident took place and working for one of the local TV stations I can tell you what I have learned.

    1. The police have not arrested anyone from the car that allegedly rear ended Roberson.

    2. There so far have been no witnesses found to support Robersons version of the whole thing. No one else saw anyone brandish a gun at him.

    3. The brothers apparently broke no TN law in their actions. Roberson on the other hand, HCP permit or not, DID break several laws. He was firing at someone who was not shooting at him and seems to have posed no threat to him at the time he was shooting at them.

    4. I too did not care for the "gangst'esq picture on the front page of the paper but, working in TV can tell you that the pose was almost surely not their idea but the idea of the air head reporter who was writing the article.

    5. The fact remains, they did stop someone who was committing or had just committed a felony (I believe) and who was endangering the lives of innocent people on the street. One woman who was driving by the incited missed being shot by inches.

    And for those of you who said "what if Roberson had been an undercover cop?" Undercover cops generally do not stand in the street and fire their guns at people who are not shooting at them. They are trained not to do this because it may result in them being shot by someone else or uniformed police officers.

    I think that all in all the brothers did OK.
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  9. #23
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    I think Sig summed it up pretty well
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
    Randy Cain.

    Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
    Signed: Me!

  10. #24
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    3. The brothers apparently broke no TN law in their actions. Roberson on the other hand, HCP permit or not, DID break several laws. He was firing at someone who was not shooting at him and seems to have posed no threat to him at the time he was shooting at them.
    Well, let's be fully accurate, here: the fact that someone was not being shot-at before he fired at an "attacker" is not in any way conclusive that he was not justified in shooting. Surely you are not saying that we must wait for bullets to be flying our way before we are legally justified in shooting?

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    I'd feel much better about this whole thing if it were not another CCWer that the brothers had stopped. If it was some disgruntled worker who had just killed an officeful of people and was trying to kill and carjack another person, it would've been a much more satisfying thing to read about.

    The fact is, the brothers did not so much stop someone who was on a shooting "rampage" as stop someone who had made a bad shoot/no-shoot decision and was probably not really cut out for CCW too well in the first place (Roberson).

    Certainly, they may have stopped him before some wild shot might have hit and killed a bystander, but it's not like they ended a madman's killing spree or something.

    This one is a "pyrrhic" story; yes, it makes two CCWers look good, and restrained, and level-headed. At the same time, it makes another one look like a loose cannon and a danger to the public! "We" don't exactly win in this one. . .

  12. #26
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    Question After Reading The Article...

    I would not have turned around to go find trouble, but I would have called 911 and tried to be a great witness...

    With that said...
    I'm glad that the two brothers stopped the dirtbag...but I don't think I would have had such a picture for the newspaper...it did look a bit 'gangsta style', as previously mentioned...

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  13. #27
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peacefuljeffrey View Post
    Well, let's be fully accurate, here: the fact that someone was not being shot-at before he fired at an "attacker" is not in any way conclusive that he was not justified in shooting. Surely you are not saying that we must wait for bullets to be flying our way before we are legally justified in shooting?
    Not at all. I do not believe we have to wait to be shot at before we shoot. If your life is in danger then you are justified in shooting.

    But, some of the witness statements I have heard state that the men Roberson was shooting at were running away from him or seated in the other car with their heads ducked down. Neither of those postures would lead me to believe my life was in danger if I was Roberson.
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  14. #28
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Agreed PJ and Retsput99.

    Sig it's well known that witnesses are very fallible.
    As well they would have turned to look at Roberson to see what he's doing, as per the gun shots, after the alleged fact that the other persons drew down o or in some other way threatened him.
    What's odd about this story is why are there missing persons from the other car and why are the persons of that car not interviewed at all as they were alledged 'victims' and assumedly on site along with the two brothers. There is information missing here as on the surafce the tale as told doesn't add up, for me.

    That's not key though as what is per my initial post this story scenario has alot of bad to it, more so than good, and it's something that should make folks think along the lines of geez what would I do being in the shoes of Roberson, the brothers, or even just a witness.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  15. #29
    Senior Member Array Slim_45's Avatar
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    I hope cops in michigan would be that supportive if i or any of my friends ever stoped something (which i would) i just hear alot more stories of CCW holders being in trouble for what they do then congrats. One thing that bothers me is that crimanals have rights when they break into your home, i hear all these stories of homeowners getting in trouble or more often sued by BGs Or BGs Family...Go Figure

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