A boy dies, and a gun debate is reignited

A boy dies, and a gun debate is reignited

This is a discussion on A boy dies, and a gun debate is reignited within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Where is my blood pressure medication! A boy dies, and a gun debate is reignited Holdup victim had concealed-carry permit Tuesday, April 24, 2007Damian G. ...

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Thread: A boy dies, and a gun debate is reignited

  1. #1
    VIP Member
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    Angry A boy dies, and a gun debate is reignited

    Where is my blood pressure medication!

    A boy dies, and a gun debate is reignited
    Holdup victim had concealed-carry permit Tuesday, April 24, 2007Damian G. Guevara and Patrick O'DonnellPlain Dealer Reporters
    Damon Wells is the man gun supporters were imagining when they fought for the right to carry concealed weapons.

    He had a permit to carry his gun, and he had the gun on him when a pair of teenage thieves approached him Saturday night on his front porch in Cleveland.

    When one of the youths pulled a gun, Wells drew his and shot one of the boys several times in the chest, police said. Arthur Buford, 15, died after stumbling away and collapsing on a sidewalk near East 134th Street and Kinsman Road.

    City prosecutors decided Monday that Wells, 25, was justified and would not be charged for what appears to be the first time a concealed-carry permit holder has shot and killed an attacker.

    Nonetheless, the shooting reignited the debate that flared three years ago when Ohio's concealed-carry law took effect.

    Gun supporters said the weapon saved Wells' life. Opponents said it took Buford's - that the 15-year-old might be alive if a citizen had not been armed.
    An angry throng of about 30 youths gathered Monday and set up a memorial at the intersection where Buford, a freshman at John F. Kennedy High School, died.

    His cousin, Tameka Foster, 21, questioned why police did not punish Buford's shooter.

    "They let that man run out freely," Foster said. "My cousin is dead."

    Buford's accomplice disappeared after the shooting and had not been caught as of Monday night. Police found a .38-caliber handgun in the mail chute of a nearby house. They believe it belonged to Buford or the other suspect, Lt. Thomas Stacho said.

    Police took a .40-caliber Smith and Wesson firearm from Wells as evidence, the police report shows.

    Both sides of the gun debate said it was sad that a teenager died.

    "It's tragic," said Jim Irvine, chairman of the Buckeye Firearms Association. "Anytime somebody dies, it's tragic, but it's hard to have any sympathy when he chose to have a gun and go threaten somebody's life."

    Irvine said it was "great that a potential victim is able to continue his life instead of having a criminal take it."

    Toby Hoover, of the Ohio Coalition Against Gun Violence, said she had not heard of any other fatal shooting involving a concealed-carry permit holder.

    "This is one of the few where they actually used it to stop a crime," Hoover said.

    But, she said, "there's still a dead kid here."

    A man who answered a phone number for Wells refused to comment and hung up. No one answered the door at Wells' home.

    Plain Dealer reporters Jesse Tinsley and Brie Zeltner and researcher Cheryl Diamond contributed to this story.
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
    Randy Cain.

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  2. #2
    Member Array bones's Avatar
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    So what if a Bad Guy life was taken. In that trade a Good Guy life was spared. Just, so what!
    "There is no such thing as too much ammo. Unless you're swimming!"

  3. #3
    Distinguished Member Array Stetson's Avatar
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    The home owner would have been hurt or dead! I guess that 's
    o.k. in Ohio? I am glad he had the guts to protect himself!

  4. #4
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    Someone should have told that kid he could die playing with guns.


    Oh well, it was only a matter of time before he killed a victimor he may already have.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    EE Gads! Ms. Foster, I'm sorry your cousins' parents sucked at their job. My question is: why are they not punished for letting him run around with a gun? I hope Mr. Wells can sue them for the emotional trauma he suffers as a result of their little angels' actions.
    Spend few minutes learning about my journey from Zero to Athlete in this
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  6. #6
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    Armed robbers picked the wrong victim, nothing more.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

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    Senior Member Array joleary223's Avatar
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    Darwnism at it's finest. Act stupid, die stupid.

  8. #8
    Member Array Ranger's Avatar
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    Hello criminal, this is natural selection calling.

    You've been deselected from the gene pool. No further action is required on your part.

  9. #9
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    ..... that the 15-year-old might be alive if a citizen had not been armed.
    I get so mad when this kinda statement blatently suggests all would have been well if the CCW guy had lost his life.

    Great huh! Victim dies and armed punk kid lives - to fight another day. I'd like each and every one of these whiners to consider that it was they standing in line of fire from the punk - and whether they would have chosen death over self defence. Geez.

    So - kid was 15 ...... big deal ...... he played with fire and got burned. Sorry if that sounds harsh.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


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    VIP Member Array Tom G's Avatar
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    The teen aged boy became an armed thug when he pulled the gun. He was intent upon doing harm to the victim. There's no age limit on thugs. When violence is used no matter what the age it should be handled as an adult crime.

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    The horror that a man would shoot a child! Nevermind the child had a gun on the man first and was trying to rob him.

    "Oh, but he was a good boy, he wouldn't have hurt anybody." And when he escalates to killing his victims, those same people will say, "Oh, the gun went off by accident. That eeevil gun led my boy astray."

    And why was this 15 year-old punk out robbing people and sticking guns in people's faces? I'd say at least one reason is that people kept letting him get away with a slap on the wrist until he believed there were no consequences for his actions.

    And then somebody stood up and refused to be a victim. Hopefully the kid's surviving buddy will learn something from this incident.
    "Americans have the will to resist because you have weapons. If you don't have a gun, freedom of speech has no power." - Yoshimi Ishikawa

  12. #12
    Senior Member Array craze's Avatar
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    I just don't see why this would reignite a gun debate. Seems cut and dry these "boys" did not pull a toy gun they pulled a real gun that they aquired illegally.

    The only people that have a problem with this apparently would rather the intended victim be dead.

    The reality is countless victims were spared because a criminals career was cut short early. It truly is a shame it had to happen, but Mr. Wells did not choose to make it happen. He resopnded in the only way he could and I hope he recovers quickly from the trauma caused by this "child". He is the victim here and the only one I feel sorry for.

    As far as I'm concerned the best possible outcome was achieved.
    "Some people go to bed with Lucifer..........then cry, cry, cry when they don't greet the day with God."

  13. #13
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    The debate should be.....Legally owned guns are Good, Illegally owned guns are bad
    Last edited by pgrass101; April 24th, 2007 at 02:46 PM.
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

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    Hmm, should be interesting to see how this plays throughout Ohio, don't expect any fair coverage from the Plain Dealer though.

    Sounds justified to me, a 15 year old can kill ya just as dead as a 25 year old. Maybe he shouldnt of been running around with a .38 at 15, and then he'd still be alive.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

    Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
    NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor

  15. #15
    Senior Member Array PaulG's Avatar
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    That's the politically correct attitude now a days.

    The life of the scum bag criminal is just as precious as yours or mine.

    If you fight back, you are no better than the bad guy.

    Give him what he wants and he will leave you alone. What if he wants your life?

    It would have been horrible if anyone at Virginia Tech had shot back at the shooter. How could they live with stooping to his level.

    Notice that the operative word here is LIVE.
    fortiter in re, suaviter in modo (resolutely in action, gently in manner).

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