CCW'er shot and killed by CCW retired police officer. - Page 2

CCW'er shot and killed by CCW retired police officer.

This is a discussion on CCW'er shot and killed by CCW retired police officer. within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; The retired LEO should have never entered into the argument in the first place. The victim was not too bright if he drew his gun ...

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Thread: CCW'er shot and killed by CCW retired police officer.

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Tom G's Avatar
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    The retired LEO should have never entered into the argument in the first place. The victim was not too bright if he drew his gun first. This is what happens when two men with an over active ego are behind the wheel and meet. They both should have left their guns at home until they learn to control their tempers.


  2. #17
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    Certainly not enough info to draw ANY conclusions other than to be routinely suspicious of how the MEDIA covers the story.

    I think the whole poll issue smack dab in the middle of the article is a very telling thing in and of itself, trying to play on the emotions of the readers in the heat of reading an article which appears on it's surface to show two gun owners getting into an argument over a traffic right of way.

    I voted and as of that time it was 80% in favor of CCW and 20% against, so hopefully if their ploy was to get the anti-gunners to take the poll, it clearly hasn't worked so far.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  3. #18
    Member Array woodstock's Avatar
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    I'm with Mark555 on the wording of their "survey"

    I was saddened by the content of the article and hope Pickerill recovers. But I was shocked and amused by the station's "survey and sent the the following e-mail...

    "I found the following survey question on your website attached to a story about a "road rage" shootng incident:

    "SURVEY
    Both the victim and the suspect had a permit to carry a Concealed Deadly Weapon. Kentucky citizens have been able to apply for a Carry Concealed Deadly Weapon license since it became state law in 1996.

    Are you in favor of or against citizens being allowed to carry concealed deadly weapons?
    Yes.
    No.

    Results | Disclaimer
    "

    Read that again..."Are you in favor of or against..." Now you answer "Yes or No" Obviously the only correct answer is "Yes" because there is no choice for "Undecided" so you MUST either be "for" or "against" the topic of the question. Doesn't matter what topic the question is asked about if it's asked in that form! You have to answer "Yes" regardless if you're for or against whatever the question is!

    The best part is in your disclaimer:

    "SURVEY DISCLAIMER

    Please keep in mind that our polls are for entertainment and are not conducted in a scientific fashion.
    We make no guarantees about the accuracy of the results other than that they reflect the choices of the users who participated.
    If you have questions or comments about our polls, please e-mail us.
    "

    This form of survey was certainly entertaining for me!

    As to the topic of the horribly worded survey question, it doesn't matter if one is for or against citizens being able to carry handguns for self defense. The Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution says that the right to keep and bear arms is an inalienable right protected by the constitution of this country and by the constitutions of many, if not most, of the individual states."


    I used to think the people dolnig out the news were educated and intelligent. But this is right up there with Matt Laurer and others who tell you there is about to be a break for commecials by saying , "And we're back after ..." They have no clue that "we're" is a contraction ofr the words "we are" in the present tense when they're referring to a future event. Just one of those amusing annoyances we see every day.
    Last edited by woodstock; June 6th, 2007 at 08:14 AM. Reason: grammar
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  4. #19
    Distinguished Member Array BIG E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodstock View Post
    I was saddened by the content of the article and hope Pickerill recovers. But I was shocked and amused by the station's "survey and sent the the following e-mail...

    "I found the following survey question on your website attached to a story about a "road rage" shootng incident:

    "SURVEY
    Both the victim and the suspect had a permit to carry a Concealed Deadly Weapon. Kentucky citizens have been able to apply for a Carry Concealed Deadly Weapon license since it became state law in 1996.

    Are you in favor of or against citizens being allowed to carry concealed deadly weapons?
    Yes.
    No.

    Results | Disclaimer
    "

    Read that again..."Are you in favor of or against..." Now you answer "Yes or No" Obviously the only correct answer is "Yes" because there is no choice for "Undecided" so you MUST either be "for" or "against" the topic of the question. Doesn't matter what topic the question is asked about if it's asked in that form! You have to answer "Yes" regardless if you're for or against whatever the question is!

    The best part is in your disclaimer:

    "SURVEY DISCLAIMER

    Please keep in mind that our polls are for entertainment and are not conducted in a scientific fashion.
    We make no guarantees about the accuracy of the results other than that they reflect the choices of the users who participated.
    If you have questions or comments about our polls, please e-mail us.
    "

    This form of survey was certainly entertaining for me!

    As to the topic of the horribly worded survey question, it doesn't matter if one is for or against citizens being able to carry handguns for self defense. The Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution says that the right to keep and bear arms is an inalienable right protected by the constitution of this country and by the constitutions of many, if not most, of the individual states."


    I used to think the people dolnig out the news were educated and intelligent. But this is right up there with Matt Laurer and others who tell you there is about to be a break for commecials by saying , "And we're back after ..." They have no clue that "we're" is a contraction ofr the words "we are" in the present tense when they're referring to a future event. Just one of those amusing annoyances we see every day.

    Well done. Let us know if you recieve a reply.
    Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft!

    -- Theodore Roosevelt --

  5. #20
    Member Array kyccw's Avatar
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    87% in favor now :-)

    Definitely sounds like overblown testosterone.

  6. #21
    Member Array Gadfly's Avatar
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    One thing's for sure--this incident is a black eye for the 2nd Amendment/CCW crowd. All because of two testosterone-juiced idjits.
    Don't forget to bow as the chariot passes.

  7. #22
    Senior Member Array Fragman's Avatar
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    Poll Wording

    Looks like they corrected the wording in the poll

    Now it says 'Are you in favor of citizens being allowed to carry concealed deadly weapons?'

  8. #23
    Distinguished Member Array BIG E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodstock View Post
    I was saddened by the content of the article and hope Pickerill recovers. But I was shocked and amused by the station's "survey and sent the the following e-mail...

    "I found the following survey question on your website attached to a story about a "road rage" shootng incident:

    "SURVEY
    Both the victim and the suspect had a permit to carry a Concealed Deadly Weapon. Kentucky citizens have been able to apply for a Carry Concealed Deadly Weapon license since it became state law in 1996.

    Are you in favor of or against citizens being allowed to carry concealed deadly weapons?
    Yes.
    No.

    Results | Disclaimer
    "

    Read that again..."Are you in favor of or against..." Now you answer "Yes or No" Obviously the only correct answer is "Yes" because there is no choice for "Undecided" so you MUST either be "for" or "against" the topic of the question. Doesn't matter what topic the question is asked about if it's asked in that form! You have to answer "Yes" regardless if you're for or against whatever the question is!

    The best part is in your disclaimer:

    "SURVEY DISCLAIMER

    Please keep in mind that our polls are for entertainment and are not conducted in a scientific fashion.
    We make no guarantees about the accuracy of the results other than that they reflect the choices of the users who participated.
    If you have questions or comments about our polls, please e-mail us.
    "

    This form of survey was certainly entertaining for me!

    As to the topic of the horribly worded survey question, it doesn't matter if one is for or against citizens being able to carry handguns for self defense. The Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution says that the right to keep and bear arms is an inalienable right protected by the constitution of this country and by the constitutions of many, if not most, of the individual states."


    I used to think the people dolnig out the news were educated and intelligent. But this is right up there with Matt Laurer and others who tell you there is about to be a break for commecials by saying , "And we're back after ..." They have no clue that "we're" is a contraction ofr the words "we are" in the present tense when they're referring to a future event. Just one of those amusing annoyances we see every day.

    Well done. Let us know if you recieve a reply.
    Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft!

    -- Theodore Roosevelt --

  9. #24
    Member Array DaveT's Avatar
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    1900 votes = 90% For
    202 votes = 10% Against

    This morning's results.

  10. #25
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    Still 90% for...

    Strap on the gun...take off your pride...

    ret
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

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  11. #26
    Distinguished Member Array BIG E's Avatar
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    Haven't had time to look for updates.

    The story below says that neither man had left their cars.

    Just found this.

    http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/...ONE03/70605027


    and found this summary on another site.

    One was a retired 20-year Jeffersontown police officer, the other a small-business owner who installs equipment for the elderly.

    Both men were legally carrying semi-automatic handguns when their argument at a four-way stop erupted in gunfire Sunday afternoon outside a Kroger in Jeffersontown.

    Now, 33-year-old Darren Pickerill, a Shawnee High School graduate, lies in critical condition in University Hospital's intensive care unit, with bullet wounds to his left arm, chest and head.

    And 50-year-old Richard Koenig, the former officer who says he shot Pickerill in self-defense, is being investigated by the department he served for two decades. No charges have been filed.

    "We're trying to give it due diligence," said Jeffersontown Police Chief Rick Sanders. "We've talked to a number of witnesses that were in the parking lot."

    Sanders said he expects to meet with Commonwealth's Attorney Dave Stengel this week. Stengel's office would decide whether to take the case before a grand jury.

    The shooting took place about 3:30 p.m. Sunday in the Kroger parking lot in the Stony Brook shopping center at Taylorsville Road and Hurstbourne Parkway.

    The preliminary investigation indicates that Pickerill pulled up to a stop sign in a black Hummer H3; Koenig rolled up to the same intersection in a tan Jeep, Sanders said.

    The men got into a brief argument, which Sanders said apparently centered around who had the right of way. Sanders said it appears that Pickerill pulled into the intersection in front of Koenig as he attempted to turn left and that is when the exchange occurred and the shooting took place.

    Neither man had left his vehicle when Koenig fired six to eight times at Pickerill, with several rounds passing through Pickerill's Hummer and striking a nearby National City Bank branch, Sanders said.

    "Officer Koenig stated that he saw a weapon and fired in self-defense," Sanders said.

    Sanders said the whole incident took about a minute. Arriving emergency workers found Pickerill still in his car. Sanders did not comment on whether Pickerill's gun had been fired.

    Roxann Marling, Pickerill's sister, said in an interview yesterday that she'd like to know what happened to prompt such violence.

    "There's a lot of unanswered questions and we hope we can get honest answers for them," she said. "It's not worth being in this kind of shape over road rage."

    She said her brother is not talking but is clearly in a lot of pain.

    A Jefferson County court search turned up no criminal activity or traffic violations for either Pickerill or Koenig.

    Koenig joined the Jeffersontown Police Department in 1986 after serving initially as an officer in Houston, Texas. Police did not release personnel records from Koenig's time on the department.

    He could not be reached for comment yesterday.

    Yesterday, shoppers near the Kroger said they were surprised the shooting took place in that area, which they consider safe. But most said it would not impact whether or not they would return there.

    "It looks like two oddballs ran into each other," said Larry Curtis, who said he has lived in Jeffersontown for nine years.

    Sanders said there were several people in the parking lot at the time of the shooting, and he appealed to any witnesses to report what they saw.

    He said he was concerned about the danger to others in the area during the shooting, as rounds passed through the Hummer, eventually striking the nearby bank.

    "Any time you have gunfire in a public place you have fear of danger," Sanders said.

    Police have begun looking at surveillance tapes from businesses in the area, but Sanders said he didn't know if any of them captured the incident.
    Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft!

    -- Theodore Roosevelt --

  12. #27
    Member Array scott4957's Avatar
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    I don't think all the info is out yet, but Koening didn't take too much into consideration when he started shooting, were that many rounds really needed? Considering he had more of a record then the guy that got shot, has had several complaints about his driving and was under investigation as he was going out the door, I would say he doesn't have much going for him. Considering they were both in their cars and perpendicular to each other just makes it more difficult to justify what he did, reverse may have been a better option. Just my opinions, considering I don't have all the facts it may not be fair to say, but regardless of that, it is safe to say someone had a huge ego trip, if not both parties. I used to be that kind of driver, thankfully I have change and don't get so upset, guess that is why insurance goes down when you turn 25, because that is about the time I pulled my head out of my butt. You really have to check that crap at the door when you carry.

    Scott

  13. #28
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    Something in this story smells really bad!
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

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  14. #29
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    Exclamation

    I think a few things donít add up, just my $0.02...... I am no investigator, however, I know when things just don't seem right. How are you going to shoot someone over a damn traffic incident? I mean does this guy have some built up anger from to many people getting off of traffic tickets or what. I am not really trying to be funny, as a persons life hangs in the balance, but crap. This does not even add up. How from another car can you tell for sure what is going on in a Hummer H2? And he is a bigger guy it looks like so come on. I think from the info, that both parties got to upset to quick, and from what I have seen I think that the police officer had a little to much built up anger about somethingís and thought he was still the law and people needed to respect him in that fashion, however he is not and should be treated like every other a$$hole that can not pay attention to what is going on around them and just relax and learn to drive the right way. The are no more lights on top buddy.

    This is a sad day for everyone, whether a CW holder or not, just an average Joe.

  15. #30
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    Hmm, now the story says that the victim's gun was found in the center console of the car. Apparently someone put the gun in the console after the shooting (highly unlikely), or the gun was waved, put back in the console, and then the victim was shot (more likely). It seems probable that at some point the gun was waved around, because I don't see why this former police officer would fire almost a full mag (additional rounds flew through the vehicle and into a bank) into the guy just out of anger. I can see him firing a few rounds into the guy's car, and maybe even at the guy, but emptying a whole mag? I have to think he really did feel in danger, because he tried to kill the guy.

    The scenario that makes sense is the victim pulled the gun out and waved it at the ex-cop, for scare effect, then dropped the gun back into the console. After seeing the gun, the shooter extracted his firearm, which took a few seconds, and by the time he had the gun out, the victim's gun was already put away. The officer, enraged and now feeling he has an excuse, empties his gun into the man. Perhaps he even thought the gun was still being held by the victim, out of sight.

    Side note: 5 rounds of .40 S&W to the body and 1 to the head should leave a man dead, no? Curiously enough, this man is still alive. Shot placement is key.

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