Armed citizen shoots customer

This is a discussion on Armed citizen shoots customer within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; http://www.myfoxla.com/myfox/pages/N...Y&pageId=3.2.1 Teen Killed at South LA Market Last Edited: Tuesday, 12 Jun 2007, 12:09 PM PDT Created: Tuesday, 12 Jun 2007, 6:50 AM PDT A ...

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Thread: Armed citizen shoots customer

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Armed citizen shoots customer

    http://www.myfoxla.com/myfox/pages/N...Y&pageId=3.2.1

    Teen Killed at South LA Market
    Last Edited: Tuesday, 12 Jun 2007, 12:09 PM PDT
    Created: Tuesday, 12 Jun 2007, 6:50 AM PDT
    A South LA market employee is in police custody after shooting and killing a 16-year-old boy.


    The shooting at Normandie Ranch Market at 5300 S. Normandie Ave. occurred around 2:30 yesterday afternoon, the Los Angeles Police Department reported.

    Solomon Berhane, 38, was booked for manslaughter in the death of Ruben Castillo, according to the LAPD.

    The shooting occurred after Castillo walked into the market.

    "As the victim approached behind the counter area, he apparently startled the employee, who was counting money," an LAPD statement said. "The suspect/employee ... armed himself with a gun and fired one shot into the victim's torso."

    Berhane called 911 and tried to aid the wounded teen, police said.

    "The suspect reported that he was frightened and accidentally shot the victim," according to the LAPD statement.

    Castillo worked at a nearby tire store with his brother and went to the market on a bicycle to buy batteries for his radio, according to broadcast reports.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    ARG! Another one to put the rest of us in a bad light?
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    "The suspect reported that he was frightened and accidentally shot the victim," according to the LAPD statement.
    News reports being what they are, it's hard to know the full story at this point. But "unreasonable fear" can be a bad thing. Sounds like the guy was a bit too ready to shoot someone, and his apparent statement of doing this one accidentally doesn't help his case ... though, helping tend to the victim does.

    Counting money in the open store area (even behind a counter) puts the counter at risk of surprise, even theft. It's an unreasonable draw to criminals. It should be taken elsewhere and counted there, in a more-secure area. Or, the store should be closed/locked for the brief duration of the counting, if the person's alone.

    Amazing that he was surprised. I'd think the store would have a little beeper at the door to indicate entry/exit of customers.

    Assuming the customer wasn't in the actual act of attacking, it's amazing to me that the person failed to appreciate the difference between a likely customer just standing there and someone actively engaged in an attack. That's a pretty quick draw, if there weren't other factors "proving" that an attack was surging against him. (Reminds me of the Bernard Goetz shootings, in the early 1980's.)

    I wonder what, if anything, the store's video camera shows, if one existed.

    I almost hope he didn't have a CHL, as that could only add to the blowback (for us). I'm assuming he simply had a gun at the counter. Unknown.

    My guess is that California law's going to make his next couple of years very painful and expensive.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
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  5. #4
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    It seems to be a truly accidental shooting.

    "The shopkeeper was beside himself with grief," said Deputy Chief Charlie Beck of the LAPD's South Bureau. "He didn't want a lawyer and was blaming himself and saying he would have to live with it for the rest of his life."

    Ruben, one of 15 siblings, moved from Mexico's Guanajuato state to Los Angeles around a year ago to work and study English, said Saul Castillo, his 34-year-old brother.

    The two brothers worked at a tire shop a block away from the market, where Ruben was a regular customer, and according to residents, had a "friendly, bantering acquaintance" with Berhane.
    Rest of the article
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miggy View Post
    It seems to be a truly accidental shooting.
    If the timeline is true, then it's hard to see how it's an accident. Lamentable, sure. But, an accident?

    Customer walks in; clerk is startled; clerk then acquires gun, which I'm assuming is not on his person (by the description); then, he aims/shoots, even though the victim's known to him. Particularly if they knew each other well, it should be reasonable to expect that identification of the "threat" would be hard to miss.

    Bad situation, for all involved.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  7. #6
    Distinguished Member Array ArmyCop's Avatar
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    Very Tragic happening. Hate hearing something like that. I feel so sorry for all involved - the shooter and especially the boy's family.

    Although a somewhat different incident this one still reminded me of the following story I heard on one of the wild west history shows recently when Wild Bill Hickok accidentally shot and killed one of his own deputies that was coming to his aid.
    ======================
    Wild Bill Hickok
    While working in Abilene, Hickok and Phil Coe, a saloon owner, had an ongoing dispute that later resulted in a shootout. Coe had been the business partner of known gunman Ben Thompson, with whom he co-owned the Bulls Head Saloon. On October 5, 1871, Hickok was standing off a crowd during a street brawl, during which time Coe fired two shots at Hickok. Hickok returned fire and killed Coe. Hickok, whose eyesight was poor by that time in his life from early stages of glaucoma, caught the glimpse of movement of someone running toward him. He quickly fired one shot in reaction, accidentally shooting and killing Abilene Special Deputy Marshal Mike Williams, who was coming to his aid, an event that affected him for the remainder of his life.
    ===========================
    For God, Family and Country!

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    VIP Member Array obxned's Avatar
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    "As the victim approached behind the counter area, he apparently startled the employee, who was counting money," an LAPD statement said. "The suspect/employee ... armed himself with a gun and fired one shot into the victim's torso."

    So why exactly was the 'victim' behind the counter, approaching the man counting money? Was he trying to sell him Girl Scout Cookies, or did he have some other transaction in mind?
    "If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan

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    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    This happened in L.A.
    So, I'd be surprised if the shooter had a CCW license.

    And if he doesn't, then all that can really be concluded is, "Yes, Californians should just keep at it the way they're going, with no CCW because they obviously can't be trusted." No change in that status quo.

    I don't see what it will affect when people shoot others unjustifiably in a place where they're not allowed to carry guns anyway. What's there to change? There's no right-to-carry to take away.

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    VIP Member Array Tom G's Avatar
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    That guy had an itchy trigger finger.

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    Distinguished Member Array Bob The Great's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by obxned View Post
    [I]
    So why exactly was the 'victim' behind the counter, approaching the man counting money? Was he trying to sell him Girl Scout Cookies, or did he have some other transaction in mind?
    If they knew each other, it's possible he was coming over to say hi, or even that he intended to startle the clerk, as a joke. I suppose it's also possible he intended to do something more sinister, but it seems like targetting someone for robbery who knows you isn't the best idea.

    At least they didn't say "the gun somehow went off." This sounds (on the surface) like a case of poor target determination and lack of situational awareness.

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom G View Post
    That guy had an itchy trigger finger.
    ...and for whatever reason a fragile mental state as well, which lead to the reaction result he mistakenly made.

    As a lesson learned...the store owner being jumpy and worrisome as he was should not have been counting his drawer money in public accessible space as he was. He shouldn't have put himself in a physical position to be startled by an otherwise normal to his business action by a customer. Count your cash in a back room/office or if there is no current co-worker coverage then do so later.

    This sucks for everybody; the shooter, the victim, and we gun advocates too.
    One more avoidable addition to the Brady campaigns stats.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

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  13. #12
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Is it possible that the innocent yute was faking a robbery, or worse, making a real robbery that the store owner assumed after the shooting to be fake?
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

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