July 22nd, 2007 03:50 PM
Hey all, I'm new to the forum and this is my first thread aside from my introduction so...without further delays, here goes.
I worked for a private security firm not too long ago, providing security for several businesses and apartments in the downtown Omaha, NE and Council Bluffs IA area. I worked mobile patrol, which involved driving my police retired Impala interceptor around to about 20 different locations about 3 times a night. I carried my always faithful Springfield Armory XD45 packed to the hilt with a combo of 180 and 230 grain hollow points and my TLR-2 bolted to the rail. I also carried OC (Stroam), cuffs, latex gloves, etc...almost a full police duty belt. As a Security Officer, I had no PI license, or law enforcement degrees, I was a civilian with a toy badge...with no juridstiction on public property, which is exactly where this event occurs.
I was on my between accounts at about 230 am driving down Broadway, the main strip for Council Bluffs. As I was driving I noticed that i was looking at 3 sets of headlights on the other side of the road, where there should only be two. I slowed down to take a look at what was going on. This was when I saw it. There were four males, two on the ground in the fetal position. The other two were beating them brutally, one had a pipe, one had a metal bat. I instantly hit the rotator lights and cut across the road, completely misjudging the curb, and almost ripping off the bumper(oops). I immediatly got out of my cruiser identified myself as a security officer and ordered both men down on the ground. The one with the pipe took off running and the one with the bat turned toward me and started to approach me. I kept an eye on the one running to see where he went, but my focus was on the BG walking at me with a bat. After watching him beat on the victim with extreme malice, I opted to skip the OC spray and go straight for my gun. I was standing behind my cruiser door, bladed off, and the BG had no idea I was armed. I ordered him down twice more before i drew down on him. When I pulled, he seemed pretty indifferent and kept approaching. Trying to avoid shooting before I exhausted all other resources, I thought, "hey i just dropped 300 dollars on this laser light" so i flipped it on. As soon as I lit him up with the laser, the BG hit the ground like a felled tree. I got him on his stomach, legs and arms spread and I approached from his 5 oclock to disarm him and search him for weapons. During this time, I had 911 dialed on speaker phone requesting some officer assistance. 911 stayed on the line with me and it took an alarming 4 minutes for them to arrive, considering the lack of traffic and incredibly easy access of the scene. Meanwhile I had cuffed the BG and was still keeping him down at gunpoint. Before the police showed up he requested to sit up so he could puke. Considering his level of intoxication I am glad I skipped the OC, it probably would have just pissed him off. As soon as the police showed up, I put my hands up and backed off the BG until they cleared me. Once cleared I immediatly provided medical attention to the victims. One had a smashed jaw and missing teeth but no severe lacerations, he could wait. The other had his skull smashed open, and I could see his exposed skull. 2 or 3 more strikes, and he would have been killed IMO. Luckily the paramedics showed up and were able to do more than just stop the bleeding. I sent (I say i sent...but i really suggested) 2 units that they head west to find the other guy, and they were able to apprehend him.
Both victims survived, both men were apprehended. I didn't have to testify, both plead to attemped manslaughter. I was just glad to have stopped a very explosive situation.
July 22nd, 2007 04:00 PM
Wow, you did well for the most part. Its a story for the grandkids no doubt. You acted as any decent citizen should have.
The biggest error you made was cuffing the bad guy prior to any help arriving. Keep him down at gun point at a safe distance. That protects you in more ways than one.
Last edited by SIXTO; July 22nd, 2007 at 08:54 PM.
"Just blame Sixto"
July 22nd, 2007 04:02 PM
You witnessed a felony assault in progress and chose to act.
You probably saved at least one guys life.
What you did takes guts.
Good job! Sounds like you did it by the book.
While I have no doubt that some here will deplore the fact that you acted like a "Cop" without proper authorization, had I arrived on the scene as a Cop I would have shook your hand.
Im sure the guys familys would thank you too.
I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.
AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
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July 22nd, 2007 04:20 PM
I know it wasnt the best idea to cuff the guy with no backup, but with mitigating factors (intoxication, hostility, and a partner that had fled my field of vision and could come back at any time) I felt that cuffing him was my best choice so he wouldnt get any bright ideas and I wouldn't suddenly become outnumbered.
As for acting like a cop...yeah i pretty much did, but I clearly identified myself as a security officer. The detective and the responding officers did indeed shake my hand, which was one of the most rewarding things I've ever experienced.
July 22nd, 2007 04:57 PM
Well done, sir. I certainly hope that - if it were my loved ones being assaulted like that - someone with the means and opportunity to stop the assault would do so. Sincere thanks for being a good citizen, and doing what was right, despite the fact that it was difficult and dangerous, and that you had no legal responsibility to intervene.
A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.
July 22nd, 2007 06:40 PM
By the way, welcome to the forum, you did a good job.
Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.
July 22nd, 2007 07:55 PM
Good job, what you did took guts and i doubt many people would have done the same, which is sad. Don't let anyone tell you anything about "being a wannabe cop." Im sure someone will give you crap for doing what all citizens should have done in that situation.
He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.
Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil, Aphorism 146
German philosopher (1844 - 1900)
July 22nd, 2007 08:19 PM
"In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson
Nemo Me Impune Lacesset
July 22nd, 2007 08:35 PM
Welcome to the forum! Nice job, you don't have to be a LEO to stop a crime in progress, just a good citizen!
"These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier
and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the
service of his country; but he that stands it now, deserves the
love and thanks of man and woman."
-- Thomas Paine (The American Crisis, No. 1, 19 December 1776)
July 22nd, 2007 09:43 PM
July 22nd, 2007 10:27 PM
whew! congratulations on handling that so well, and doing society such a favor.
War is not the ugliest of things. Worse is the decayed state of moral feeling which thinks nothing is worth a war. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which he cares for more than his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free. -J.S. Mill
July 22nd, 2007 11:31 PM
Sounds like you have your head screwed on straight and tight buddy. Good job.
As someone else said, the only thing I could maybe fault you on is the cuffing of the one bad guy. Don't misunderstand me, I completely understand why you did it but I also am aware that you not being a sworn police officer, you could have opened yourself up to an unlawful detention lawsuit.
But it sounds like it turned out Ok for you in the end. Good job.
July 23rd, 2007 01:56 AM
thanks everyone for your imput! I will admit, it never crossed my mind about the lawsuit...but even in hindsight, better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
July 23rd, 2007 02:36 AM
Chalk up another attaboy! from me too.
Been there, done that here in CA back in the 70's before the state implemented stupid rules for security officers.
You didn't state the distance between you and BG #2 with the bat. Someone who has committed ADW with a bat starts approaching me in a "rude, angry or threatening manner" within about 20 feet will become a ballistic target. With 2:1 odds, both with reach-extending weapons and one approaching, I'd have drawn as I exited the vehicle.
I'm interested in how the laser light appeared at night. In my experience, the BG usually doesn't see it well on a clear night, but the slightest fog, smoke or dust may highlight the beam very well.
Kudos on keeping your cool and doing a good job. You saved one, maybe two lives that night.
Lastly, convince yourself to carry a single weight bullet in your magazine instead of mixing 180's and 230's. Point of impact at 20 yards are different (at least in my 1911's) and you want consistency.
BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)
Webmaster - Taking on Gun Control
A gun in the hand beats a cop on the phone!
July 23rd, 2007 04:01 AM
Range was very short...I'd say i exited my vehicle about 15 feet from the fight. So BG2 was not far away, and I should have drawn sooner, but I was apprehensive, the rules for shooting in Iraq were much more clear than here stateside. It all happened so fast, But BG2 did get too close for comfort, and in hindsight, I should have drawn while exiting as you said. Also, now knowing how the Police reacted when they arrived, I would have done everything quicker, but this was a first for me stateside and we've all heard horror stories about these things going wrong. As for how he saw the beam, I'm not sure. I know you can see it on the gun, and as i recall it was very cold and the 4 running vehicles in close proximity were putting out some smoke, but I honestly don't recall if you could see the beam or not, but I'd say from the range, he saw the beam on the bottom of the rails. That or he finally realized it wasn't a toy!
Haha, I knew I'd take some flak for this one...I know I shouldn't mix the weights, and I could just keep them in seperate magazines...I just don't want to be caught of guard by a bad guy with a vest. Considering most can only stop a 9mm or so, i should take comfort in that, and the 13 round capacity...but...wow the more i talk about it the more stupid the idea sounds...this is why i like message boards. Sometimes you just have to say your idea outloud to expose its idiocy...Thank you!
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