CHL student...Justifiable Shooting - Page 2

CHL student...Justifiable Shooting

This is a discussion on CHL student...Justifiable Shooting within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; all in all, a decent outcome to a bad situation. i haveta ask... was the knife weilder an immigrant, and if so, what status, do ...

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Thread: CHL student...Justifiable Shooting

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array briansmech's Avatar
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    all in all, a decent outcome to a bad situation.

    i haveta ask... was the knife weilder an immigrant, and if so, what status, do you know?


  2. #17
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    i haveta ask... was the knife weilder an immigrant, and if so, what status, do you know?
    Hmmm...Fancy that.

    It just so happens that he is from the country of Mexico where they havent yet grasped the concept of bringing knives to gunfights.
    Status is unknown.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  3. #18
    Ex Member Array FN1910's Avatar
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    When I was taking my CWP class the instructor said that if you carry a gun carry a cell phone. I had never thought about that but if you are the first to report any incident you get to tell your side of the story first and that puts the other person on the defensive. It may not work out but if I am ever involved in an altercation I am going to try to notify the police before the other person.

  4. #19
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    sounds like justified in leaving the scene, but always a good idea to call ASAP if involved in a shooting/incident. Glad it sounds as if he will be cleared of any wrong doing on his part.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


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  5. #20
    88m
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    This got me to thinking (extremely rare on a weekend.) Exactly why do we feel compelled to call LE after a justifiable use of deadly force? There is no law (in AZ, that I know of) requiring any person to initiate interaction with LE.
    I think your answered your own question in the same post.
    It is CYA if nothing else.

    any other thoughts on this?
    “The will to survive is not as important as the will to prevail... the answer to criminal aggression is retaliation.” Jeff Cooper

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by 88m View Post
    I think your answered your own question in the same post.
    It is CYA if nothing else.

    any other thoughts on this?
    While there may be no law...the first one to call is usually the first one to appear as a 'victim'...
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  7. #22
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    Exactly why do we feel compelled to call LE after a justifiable use of deadly force? There is no law (in AZ, that I know of) requiring any person to initiate interaction with LE.
    ... 'cause, an actual use of deadly force against another citizen is, at minimum, a life-threatening inury of another citizen; at worst, murder. There is nothing so violent nor invasive to society as killings of citizens. Can't imagine how failing to report could be seen in a good light.

    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    The word 'fleeing' implies some level of guilt.

    If I did not break any law why should I hang around?
    ... 'cause, it could be (probably, would be) seen as fleeing. It's covering yourself to avoid the implication of guilt, at least. Remember Bernard Goetz? High-tailing it to Vermont and failing to report the incident didn't exactly do him any favors, in the eyes of the law. In spite of his carrying a weapon illegally, he might well have saved himself all the grief, save for the actions he did post-incident that strongly suggested he wasn't all rosy and golden in his actions.
    He spent the next couple of years defending himself, IMO mostly because of what his flight and failure to report suggested about his part in the affair.

    Look at it this way: you use your firearm to kill an assailant, think you did nothing wrong, leave the scene, then 5yrs later your gun turns up as a ballistics match to the earlier "scene of the crime." I think being struck by lightning would be more likely than having the investigators believe that the "flight" had a good explanation.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
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  8. #23
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    In many states it is required by law to notify the Police is you are involved in a shooting, in others it is not specified by law but may be covered under other things, such as discharging a weapon in city limits or whatever.

    In any case, it will only HELP you case if you notify the authorities ASAP in a shooting. While it may be in your immediate best interests to leave a scene for safety considerations, it is always in your benefit to notify as soon as you reach safety.

    The only question about justified use of force in this particular case involved fleeing after the fact and it was answered in a way that was satisfactory to the Prosecutor.

    One needs to remember that someone involved in a shooting will be seen by the witnesses as a guilty party whether it was justified or not.They don't know the circumstances, they don't know who did what, most of them only see something as wrong AFTER they hear the shot...and they will tell the police what they see.

    In this case, some of them saw a man falling out of a truck, the driver getting out to look at him, and then the driver getting in his vehicle and fleeing.

    Its important to note how this gets dispatched out to the officers on patrol. The call was that there was a shooting in front of the Walmart Parking lot, a man was down, and then the description of a fleeing vehicle with the license number and direction of travel. The next call was a physical description of the shooter.

    The cops in the area hear this and this is all that they know. They know nothing other than what the dispatcher told them. They only know that a guy with a gun shot someone and they are now fleeing.
    They don't know who the good guy is, they don't know who the bad guy is and when the time comes that they find the shooter, for their own safety they will treat the shooter as a bad guy and take him down at gunpoint. When the scene is secured and the "bad guy" is taken to jail and interrogated, then and only then will they begin to see a little bit of the facts in what happened.

    This is why is it absolutely essential to notify the authorities if ever involved in a incident that requires the use of deadly force. If you flee the scene and are taken in a felony stop as this shooter was, you are putting your life in the hands of those officers involved and everyone of them will be looking at you over the sights of their pistols,rifles and shotguns. All of a sudden, the odds go way up that something bad could happen...and it may not even be there. An officer could crash while speeding to the scene. The ambulance might wreck on the way to the scene or returning to the hospital. It has happened and in some states you could be liable for anything negative that happens as a direct or indirect results of your actions.

    In this particular case...all went well. Yes its true that he had a concealed handgun liscence...but in reality it doesn't matter to the cops involved. Yes...he was the good guy...but the cops don't know that. Yes...he fled. His excuse was good enough for the Prosecuting Attorney.

    Would yours be ?

    I posted this response to help others see what actually happens when a shooting takes place...even if it is in self defense. Its important to establish that "self defense" usually wont be figured out till some time later.

    I certainly hope that is gives everyone something to think about.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  9. #24
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Yes...he was the good guy ... but the cops don't know that.
    That's the key, right there. The hunters will keep coming, as cases of "murder" never die.

    Self-serving though it may seem, I for one would prefer not to be on the receiving end of attention some years hence, simply because I doubted the system so much as to "flee" for no good reason a scene not of my making, where I was attacked and successfully defended my life or the lives of my loved ones. At minimum, it's not worth the aggravation and inevitable questioning of my integrity.

    Whatever else may be said, it's also wrong. A life that has been lost deserves a bit more attention than my flight.

    Though, in situations as the O.P. presents, there's nothing that would keep me at a scene that continued to present a clear danger to me or mine. I'd go elsewhere, get secured, then call the cavalry. That's only sensible.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  10. #25
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    There is another advantage to notifying LE. If you call, you can also be seeking medical treatment for the individual you justly shot. It demonstrates that you are more interested in protecting life than taking life.

    I would imagine that a judge, prosecutor and the jury would look favorable upon someone who left the immediate area, for safety reasons, but called and reported an incident and immediate requested that medical aid be sent for the person that obviously now needs it, whether the BG deserves it or not.
    Lex et Libertas — Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus, et Fidelis!

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  11. #26
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    Looks good on paper.

    I have mixed feelings about that though. If the dude needs to be shot, then he needs to be removed from the gene pool. In reality, saving his life, although it may be the right thing to do, may not be the smart thing to do.

    Im not too sure that looking over my shoulder for the rest of my life would be worth it...
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
    Like custom guns and stuff? Check this out...
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