This is a discussion on Man in virginia defends himself within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; If you were to shoot a BG in the back as he was about to shoot someone else standing in frount of him where would ...
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If you were to shoot a BG in the back as he was about to shoot someone else standing in frount of him where would that put you. There are a lot of situations where this can happen. I wish this guy the best and hope he dosen't have to actually go to trial. The BG put himself there and any thing that happened to him is due to the fact that he endangered some one elses life by trying to rob them with a gun.
Array
nothing wrong with shooting a violent criminal in the back.
War is not the ugliest of things. Worse is the decayed state of moral feeling which thinks nothing is worth a war. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which he cares for more than his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free. -J.S. Mill
On it's surface, shooting a person in the back isn't good!
Everyones posts about how to explain it is definitely valid and certainly the dynamics can sometimes rather easily prove it out.
But, it still isn't good to have to deal with!
Most often, during the fractions of seconds it takes to realize a deadly threat, make a conscious decision to draw and fire, and how the dynamics can change in that time span can certainly change the outcome of how things look to uneducated jurors or lawyers with an agenda to address.
Know this... If a prosecutor decides to go after you for such a circumstance, he is going to do everything he can to keep any evidence you have to support your case or explaination out of the trial. Sometimes quite successfully too.
To me it's a travesty when a prosecutor knows the truth but chooses to pursue a conviction anyway and uses dirty tricks to discredit you or suppress evidence. But it happens every day!
Border Agents Compean and Ramos have the surgeon who removed the bullet from the drug smugglers report where he states as fact that the smuggler was not struck in the back or the ass but in the left side, consistent with the smuggler turning back towards the agents with an outstretched arm as if to fire a weapon.
Somehow, the prosecution managed to get a lot of evidence like that suppressed from trial and now the two border agents are serving 11 and 12 years in prison.
I certainly don't know what is going to happen to the Baskin-Robbins employee... It could go either way.
Just know that if the person you shoot, ends up being shot in the back...
It is going to be a crap shoot as to what the prosecutor is going to do or how it's going to turn out.
-Bark'n
Semper Fi
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
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Yep, but the problem is that this is their job! They're supposed to do everything in their power to win their case, truth be damned.Originally Posted by Bark'n
This is why I think our whole justice system is a complete sham, and always will be as long as we use the adversarial system from English Common Law. The French Civil Law system doesn't have this problem.
I'm thinkin' it's not sounding like a slam dunk for the GG!
ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!
"A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
superior skills."
Array
Scenario:
So I've walked into a convenience store for some milk. As I'm bending down to grab the milk a BG walks into the store to the front counter and pulls his .38 snub or a shotgun on the counter attendent. He order the attendant to hand over all of the cash or she's dead. I see what's happening, draw and have my weapon trained on the BG as I walk towards the counter.
So what am I supposed to do?
Walk over to another isle so I can get an angle on the BG so I don't have to shoot him in the back . or
Do I just sit back and let it play out because I do not have an angle on the BG that enables me to shoot him in the front? or
Do I call out or make a noise hoping he'll turn towards me so I possibly have a frontal shot?
I believe it would be to my advantage and that of the atttendant to draw down and fire on the BG from some cover if possible if the BG's weapon is not trained directly on the attendant 'with no warning'. He warrants no warning by his action of intent to commit a felony armed robbery with lethal force on a innocent civilian worker. We all have heard the stories of BG's killing with no regard for life even if the confronted posed no threat or may have even complied totally with the BG's demands.
The problem is we always have the worry of having to deal with unscrupulous prosecutors such as Johnny Sutton (prosecutor of Compeon and Ramos) or DA's such as the Travis County, Tx DA.
I believe it is in our interest to do what we can to spotlight through the media those who have heroically defended those attacked by BG's as well as those who have defended their lives and the lives of their loved ones from attacks and home invasions that occur every day accross this land.
GOOD GUN CONTROL Is Being Able To Hit Your Target!
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Yes but there job should be to prosecute bad guys not good guys.
Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not."
~ Thomas Jefferson
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Hey, the GG may need Counsel, but he really needs is a Campaign Consultant, they should make him Mayor!
Lex et Libertas — Semper Vigilo, Fortis, Paratus, et Fidelis!
"Not only do the people who put their lives on the line to protect the rest of us deserve better, we all deserve better than to have our own security undermined by those who undermine law enforcement." -Thomas Sowell
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Yeah except we need (and yes it's the one time I agree with putting a new law on the books) to make sure that when they(prosecutors) do this(suppressing evidence in an attempt to get the conviction knowing full well the truth), they should get the same sentence as the poor bugger they got convicted.
-The Mist (2007)"My God David, We're a Civilized society."
"Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the **** out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
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Screw the prosecutors. Here are the facts: bad guy had what appeared to be a gun, and he was attempting to rob people. What should you do? Shoot the b@stard until he hits the ground. It doesn't matter what kind of gyrations he performs before he hits the ground; what matters is whether or not he is no longer a threat. As long as he is in possession of a firearm and is capable of firing, he is a threat. Even if he hits the ground, he is still a threat if he is holding the gun. You cannot blame a man for shooting another armed man in the back. It takes only a split second for someone to turn around - or merely extend the gun behind them as they are running - and fire. The good guy had no way of knowing it was simply a BB gun, so he did the right thing. Shame on the prosecutor that tries to convict the man that put this b@stard down.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xla55bM6UrA
Just shoot the robbers in the head as soon as you get a chance.
Scenario:
So I've walked into a convenience store for some milk. As I'm bending down to grab the milk a BG walks into the store to the front counter and pulls his .38 snub or a shotgun on the counter attendent. He order the attendant to hand over all of the cash or she's dead. I see what's happening, draw and have my weapon trained on the BG as I walk towards the counter.
So what am I supposed to do?
Walk over to another isle so I can get an angle on the BG so I don't have to shoot him in the back . or
Do I just sit back and let it play out because I do not have an angle on the BG that enables me to shoot him in the front? or
Do I call out or make a noise hoping he'll turn towards me so I possibly have a frontal shot?
I believe it would be to my advantage and that of the atttendant to draw down and fire on the BG from some cover if possible if the BG's weapon is not trained directly on the attendant 'with no warning'. He warrants no warning by his action of intent to commit a felony armed robbery with lethal force on a innocent civilian worker. We all have heard the stories of BG's killing with no regard for life even if the confronted posed no threat or may have even complied totally with the BG's demands.
The problem is we always have the worry of having to deal with unscrupulous prosecutors such as Johnny Sutton (prosecutor of Compeon and Ramos) or DA's such as the Travis County, Tx DA.
I believe it is in our interest to do what we can to spotlight through the media those who have heroically defended those attacked by BG's as well as those who have defended their lives and the lives of their loved ones from attacks and home invasions that occur every day accross this land.
GOOD GUN CONTROL Is Being Able To Hit Your Target!
Array
Just because the BG turns his back doesn't mean the store employee is out of danger. There was still an armed BG in the store after all; that's a good reason for the employee to be in fear of his life.
A BG well known as Jerome
Tried to take more than a cone
A brave store employee
Had no fear of J's BB
'Cause he had a gun of his own
Array
My CCW class instructor gave us several scenarios (that actually happened) involving undercover cops making arrests, which appeared at first inspection to be bad guys doing bad guy things. His advice was to save the "protect others" stuff for your family.
In this scenario, P7fanatic makes it easy: he heard the fellow say, "hand over the cash", as opposed to the instructor's scenarios in which you observe the actions but didn't hear the "you're under arrest" that went with them.
What would I do? Heck, I don't know - probably wet myself. That's why I read these forums, so I can learn and think these things through a bit ahead of time. I appreciate you all very much.
But I hope I would be VERY SURE of what was going down before taking action.
+1 on that! 100%
-Bark'n
Semper Fi
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
Array
Getting off the original subject but related - Scenario that actually happened locally a few months ago:
You walk out of Applebees and notice two man and a woman, all armed but dressed casually trying to pull a man out of a van but are having trouble since hs still has his seat belt fastened. Inside the van is a woman under the steering wheel trying to call 911. In the back of the van is a 12 year old girl screaming "Please don't kill my daddy!". Not that it makes much difference but the family in the car and the three trying to remove the man are different races. You are about 50' away and have your gun on you, what do you do?
The police arrrived shortly and broke it up. Turns out that the three BG's were actually off-duty employees of the local jail (not officers) and had gone to Applebees for lunch. The situation had developed due to an argument over how the van had been parked (took up more than one space). The three BG's were arrested and fired. BTW: The family was black and the the others were white. Aren't you glad you didn't shoot anyone?
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