The Escalante Brothers ( Mesa ,AZ)
This is a discussion on The Escalante Brothers ( Mesa ,AZ) within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Three of the four brothers (two juveniles and an adult) got all dressed up in their newest most hip hop gang banger "hollywood Video" threads.
September 10th, 2007 03:34 AM
The Escalante Brothers ( Mesa ,AZ)
Three of the four brothers (two juveniles and an adult) got all dressed up in their newest most hip hop gang banger "hollywood Video" threads.
They decided that a Sunday afternoon car jacking at a nearby grocery store would be an easy "get."
One stayed in a getaway car about 90 feet from the Honda Accura and two of the brothers waited for the oblivious 60 year old lady to return from the store (about 100 feet away) .
As they watched the car owner get farther from the stores entrance and closer to "their" new ride, two brothers proceeded toward the Accura , but they didn't walk, stroll or meander in her direction , they actually bend forward at the waist , bend at the knees and lower their heads forward like a stalking animal or groucho marx, take your pick.
Well, this and the fact that Hollywood , bling bling rap video stars don't go to our grocery store , caught my attention while I drove nearby looking for a parking space.
As the victim got to her passenger side door I pulled my car in front of hers and stopped, just then a gun comes out of a guys pants and is pointed at her face, the unarmed attacker grabs the car keys and enters the car he climbs through and is going to start the car when he sees me in parked front of him.
The gunman on his way to get in the back seat and the driver decided that they are not leaving with the car, so as the unarmed man gets back out, the gunman turns the .22 and points it at me.
At this time I put my car back in drive and attempt to get out of his aiming zone.
I ended up making a "U" turn and see them both running , the victim is standing and screaming for help and I decide that I need to get a license plate number so I drive past them to the waiting car.
The gunman is now once again pointing the gun at me.
As I drive by them - two are in the car and the gunman is now dropping down into the car.
The Mesa P.D. have all three in the county jail, 2 counts of third degree felonies each, I didn't unholster my gun, they didn't get her car, they got her purse and contents but it was all recovered in their apartment along with the gun the clothing, etc., no one got shot or went to the hospital.
The two juvinile are being tried as adults, all three have priors.
And Yes, the post incident "mind mess" sucks.
It turns out that what I thought was taking about twenty minutes , only lasted about 28 seconds, according to the digital video recorder in the grocery store.
12 days later I find out that the gun was actually not a rim-fire, but a pellet gun.
September 10th, 2007 03:34 AM
September 10th, 2007 06:42 AM
Doesn't matter that it was a pellet gun.
What matters is that these people commit armed robberies.
I'm very glad and appreciative that thanks to you, they are in jail.
Not that I would have wished for you to have to go through it, but I really wouldn't have minded a few dead robbers. The world needs more of those.
September 10th, 2007 07:14 AM
a gun is a gun.....and used in commision of a felony (or pointed at you for ANY reason) is good enough reason to act on the 'fight or flight' reaction. You did a good job....nobody shot....BG's in custody....and the intended victim got her stuff back (hopefully none the worse for the experience).
Scary situation none-the-less. Other people around the parking lot, BG's brought a gun to bare......lots of diffrent possiable outcomes.
This is a good situation to critque but certinly not to be in......
Bravo Zulu on the job you did.
"Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008
(Sometimes) "a fight avioded is a fight won." ... claude clay
September 10th, 2007 07:16 AM
Good job, Arizonut!! You didn't draw......is it because you were to busy thinking logically, or did you make a concious decision NOT to draw? Or do you encounter these situations often enough that you figured you could outsmart 'em? Blocking the car was great......but many of us would have been driving with one hand on the wheel and one itching to reach for a pistol.
Looking forward to further discussion if you are up to it.
Anyway, Thanks! from all of us with 89-year old mothers who can't defend themselves.
September 10th, 2007 07:53 AM
Scary. Glad you did your part to help get the BGs.
A man in the hands of his enemies is flesh, and shudderingly vulnerable. - author unknown
September 10th, 2007 10:11 AM
To the OP : You sound like one cool customer. I think I would have drawn in that situation.
Anti-gunners seem to believe that if we just pass enough laws, we can have utopia. Unfortunately, utopia is NOT one of our choices.
September 10th, 2007 12:08 PM
I don't know why I did not grab for my gun., I don't know why I made theh decesions that I did. I could have made seven decesions that would have changed the outcome drastically.
Seven years ago my then 78 y.o. mom was shoved and slammed into the ground , back in Iowa while walking to her car at a K Mart.
Three good samaritans got involved , one followed the attackers thru three counties until she ran out of gas, the Highway patrol caught them , the three were wanted for murder in Florida.
September 10th, 2007 12:42 PM
Good thinking blocking the car. I think I would have gotten out as quickly as possible, with my hand on my gun, and put my car between me and the BG's. If my car is being used to block in another, it has lost its mobility advantage, and it serves only to make me a stationary target with little cover. Getting a license plate number is a distant secondary once it's clear that they're armed.
Sounds like you handled the situation well, though, and I'm sure their target is grateful.
September 10th, 2007 04:10 PM
be glad you are safe, that's the most important thing. also, be glad the criminals are off the street. know that it's normal for it to shake you up a bit the first time you are thrown into a hostile situation. it may not be clear at the moment, but take comfort in the fact that the "mind mess" will lesson over time. you'll also eventually be stronger for having had the experience.
War is not the ugliest of things. Worse is the decayed state of moral feeling which thinks nothing is worth a war. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which he cares for more than his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free. -J.S. Mill
September 10th, 2007 04:40 PM
September 10th, 2007 05:00 PM
I'm thinkin' she's probably pretty shaken, but also that she doesn't know you stood ready to defend her with a GUN.
....and the intended victim got her stuff back (hopefully none the worse for the experience).
I really wish I could believe that she is going to seek awareness and defensive training, instead of shuddering about what almost happened to her and going right back to condition white. Or almost as bad, condition yellow but still with no means to defend herself should she see a threat approach.
September 10th, 2007 07:03 PM
Job well done! Way to be heads up and having some situational awareness.
As you probably found out, situations like these are very fluid in nature. Change one dynamic and the whole outcome changes.
I imagine if you would have had your gun in your hand, there may very well have been a shoot out! Then again, them knowing they only had a pellet gun and seeing your real gun, they may have just fled, like they did anyway.
Bottom line, is you never know until it happens.
I don't know if I would have intervened without my gun drawn knowing how you described having seen their gun and observed how they acted just prior and during their approach. But I wasn't there, and you stated in your follow-up that even you don't really know why you didn't go for your gun.
Hell it could have just been devine intervention or your gut saying it wasn't needed.
The bottom line is this! Situations like this are very fluid... as I stated, changing one dynamic can drastically change the entire outcome... and you have to be prepared for anything.
I believe you showed guts, and intervened with a favorable outcome.
You'll probably do a forensic dissection of this incident in your mind over and over again for quite some time. Use that information to develop more skills and evaluate your dicision making process.
Oh yeah... it all happens so fast, doesn't it?
Great Job! The public at large needs more people who see a duty to respond on behalf of those who can't!
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
September 10th, 2007 09:09 PM
Thank you for stepping up an helping the victim. Not many do that these days and it is a sad commentary if you ask me.
Originally Posted by peacefuljeffrey
DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONTESTING THE VOTE.
Certified Instructor for Minnesota Carry Permit
NRA Pistol and Personal Protection Insrtuctor
Utah Permit Certified Instructor
September 10th, 2007 09:15 PM
"That I cannot do."
"Give this to, uh, Clemenza. I want reliable people, people who aren't going to be carried away. After all we're not murderers in spite of what this undertaker thinks."
Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member
September 10th, 2007 11:27 PM
Great job, sounds like you handled it well. Might I suggest getting a cell phone , if you do not already have one.?
"In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson
Nemo Me Impune Lacesset
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