Justice!! - Page 3

Justice!!

This is a discussion on Justice!! within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by ttpete When a group that comprises about 15% of the population commits around 70% of the felonies in this country, mention of ...

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  1. #31
    Member Array libertarian5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ttpete View Post
    When a group that comprises about 15% of the population commits around 70% of the felonies in this country, mention of that fact does not constitute racism. It constitutes the truth.

    Do I profile? You bet your sweet ass I do! I do it for the reason stated above. You act like a "gangsta", you are treated like one. Instant condition orange.

    You not only profile, you are wrong.

    According to 2004 government statistics, 38% of felonies were commited by blacks, 58% by whites, and 3% by other races.

    http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/htm...cs04201tab.htm

    The government tables lump Hispanics with whites, so that is a bit misleading. However, 70% of crimes are NOT commited by blacks.

    Blacks comprise about 14% of the US population, Hispanics 19%.


  2. #32
    Member Array taggart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by libertarian5 View Post
    You not only profile, you are wrong.

    According to 2004 government statistics, 38% of felonies were commited by blacks, 58% by whites, and 3% by other races.

    http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/htm...cs04201tab.htm

    The government tables lump Hispanics with whites, so that is a bit misleading. However, 70% of crimes are NOT commited by blacks.

    Blacks comprise about 14% of the US population, Hispanics 19%.
    Stats are like polls. You can sway them any way you want. Correct. Blacks do not commit 70% of crimes. BUT...if population levels were equal...I mean, 14% of the population comitting 38% of the felonies? Can we get a statistician in here to iron this out?
    Taggart Snyder
    Man about town...

  3. #33
    Member Array libertarian5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by taggart View Post
    Stats are like polls. You can sway them any way you want. Correct. Blacks do not commit 70% of crimes. BUT...if population levels were equal...I mean, 14% of the population comitting 38% of the felonies? Can we get a statistician in here to iron this out?
    This 70% thing comes up a lot. It is an apples and oranges type of thing. It is a fact that 70% of the people incarcerated for felonies are minorities. That is all minorities combined, including Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, Native Americans, etc. The other 30% are whites. This is confused around morning coffee discussions as proof of minority crime. However, in the real world, minorites are usually sentenced to longer terms than whites are, so prison statistics are skewed.

    I have no problem with the long sentences - I like them, but they should be applied across the board to everyone, regardless of ethnicity. That would get a few more BG's off the street. (Maybe ttpete should be worrying more about the non-black bad guys. They're getting back on the street quicker) FWIW, crime is commited by minorities against minorities at higher rates than it is against whites. The reverse is also true.

    DOJ stats are here:

    http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/htm...cs04207tab.htm

    The main DOJ statistics site is here:

    http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/abstract/scscf04st.htm

  4. #34
    Distinguished Member Array kazzaerexys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chase2b View Post
    Hughes was charged with first-degree murder under California's Provocative Act doctrine, versions of which have been on the books in many states for generations but are rarely used.
    Quote Originally Posted by tanksoldier View Post
    It was explained to me as the "felony murder rule" when I took CJ classes in CA... happens all the time.
    I scratched my head on this one the first time through, but it just clicked for me. Felony murder is, everywhere I think, a type of 2nd degree murder (not pre-meditated), but the goon here is being charged with 1st degree. The quote (or paraphrase) in the original article seemed to indicate that this CA Provocative Act is particular to home invasions.

    In that case, it is different. In essence, it is saying that because the felony in question was pre-meditated (and the law would then seem to assume that a home invasion is not done on a whim), then the resulting deaths were, as well.

    Interesting take. And now I guess since this isn't just garden variety felony murder it may well raise the question of whether the Act is being applied fairly. *shrug* Wouldn't have bothered me if Hughes was 'only' charged with 2nd degree; he certainly earned at least that!

  5. #35
    Member Array jonesy_26's Avatar
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    Regardless of what the stats are, if you come through my door at 4am uninvited, harm a member of my family, you will get the business end of either my 45 or my shotgun. I don't care what color you are, red will be your color after that point. Good going Mr. Edmunds.

    It really makes me mad when these ambulance chasers like Brown, Jackson and Sharpton and the like start to pop up and speak for the criminals. Just shut up....please. These low-lifes got what they deserved, and Hughes is lucky he got away. Mom Hughes, this was not a lynching, legal or otherwise, and to state so is racism on YOUR part. Shame on you. And for you to think they were there just to buy drugs, you are either stupid or naive. If you don't like what happened to your son, maybe you should have sat him down at some point in his life and explained that there are consequences involved in everything he does. Time for him to pay his dues......

  6. #36
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    On point you are Libertarian.

    Folks love to point at the '70%' number (which is as noted and detailed in depth as being incorrect...that's the total of all minority criminals not Blacks in specific) and further ignore the also factual long time and established discrepancy in sentencing guidelines as well as the disparity in who even gets picked up for arrest against those who are let go with a verbal warning and those who get minor sentences and/or parole as opposed to those who are sentenced to prison.

    For folk who use profiling and 'truth' as basis for assesment of people then lets take a look at some other crime stats of equal importance;

    Quote Originally Posted by National Organization for Women
    Violence Against Women in the United States

    MURDER. Every day four women die in this country as a result of domestic violence, the euphemism for murders and assaults by husbands and boyfriends. That's approximately 1,400 women a year, according to the FBI. The number of women who have been murdered by their intimate partners is greater than the number of soldiers killed in the Vietnam War.

    BATTERING. Although only 572,000 reports of assault by intimates are officially reported to federal officials each year, the most conservative estimates indicate two to four million women of all races and classes are battered each year. At least 170,000 of those violent incidents are serious enough to require hospitalization, emergency room care or a doctor's attention.

    SEXUAL ASSAULT. Every year approximately 132,000 women report that they have been victims of rape or attempted rape, and more than half of them knew their attackers. It's estimated that two to six times that many women are raped, but do not report it. Every year 1.2 million women are forcibly raped by their current or former male partners, some more than once.

    THE TARGETS. Women are 10 times more likely than men to be victimized by an intimate. Young women, women who are separated, divorced or single, low- income women and African-American women are disproportionately victims of assault and rape. Domestic violence rates are five times higher among families below poverty levels, and severe spouse abuse is twice as likely to be committed by unemployed men as by those working full time. Violent attacks on lesbians and gay men have become two to three times more common than they were prior to 1988.

    http://www.now.org/issues/violence/stats.html
    Sources are multiple including the AMA and FBI.
    Quote Originally Posted by National Institute of Mental Health
    Are women or men at higher risk?

    * Suicide was the eighth leading cause of death for males and the sixteenth leading cause of death for females in 2004.1
    * Almost four times as many males as females die by suicide.1
    * Firearms, suffocation, and poison are by far the most common methods of suicide, overall. However, men and women differ in the method used, as shown below.1

    Suicide by: Males (%) Females (%)
    Firearms 57 32
    Suffocation 23 20
    Poisoning 13 38

    ...

    Are older adults at risk?

    Older Americans are disproportionately likely to die by suicide.

    * Of every 100,000 people ages 65 and older, 14.3 died by suicide in 2004. This figure is higher than the national average of 10.9 suicides per 100,000 people in the general population. 1
    * Non-Hispanic white men age 85 or older had an even higher rate, with 17.8 suicide deaths per 100,000.1

    ...

    Are Some Ethnic Groups or Races at Higher Risk?

    Of every 100,000 people in each of the following ethnic/racial groups below, the following number died by suicide in 2004.1

    * Highest rates:
    o Non-Hispanic Whites — 12.9 per 100,000
    o American Indian and Alaska Natives — 12.4 per 100,000
    * Lowest rates:
    o Non-Hispanic Blacks — 5.3 per 100,000
    o Asian and Pacific Islanders — 5.8 per 100,000
    o Hispanics — 5.9 per 100,000

    http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publi...evention.shtml
    Sources amongst many cited include the CDC and the US Public Health Service
    Quote Originally Posted by U.S. Department of Health and Human Services
    From: U.S. Department of Health and Human Services
    Child Abuse and Neglect National Statistics

    These Child Maltreatment 1997 highlights are based on States' responses to the 1997 Summary Data Component Survey. This year, many new data items were requested and not all States were able to provide complete statistics for every item.
    VICTIMS: Child protective services agencies determined that just under 1 million children were victims of substantiated or indicated abuse and neglect in 1997, a decrease from the 1996 statistics.

    Two-thirds (67%) of all victims were white. African American children represented the second largest group of victims (29.5%). Hispanic children represented about 13 percent of victims, American Indian/Alaska Native children about 2.5 percent of victims and Asian/Pacific Islander children about 1 percent of victims. The proportions of victims who were African American or American Indian/Alaska native were two times greater than the proportions of these children in the general population.

    http://www.childrensjustice.org/Chil...Statistics.htm
    Source - Dept.of Health and Human Services
    So there it is all women of any flavor should strongly fear men, period.
    Further women and children associated to white males and especially older white males should be of high concern toward their depression and subsequent effort to commit suicide. That suicide effort will be of great impact upon them whether the individual succeeds or merely injures themselves or worst someone else.
    Further all children should fear white males at large.

    Act like a crazy nut bag, grab ass, child abuser/predator, who might be older in age, you are treated like one. Instant orange.
    Women and children should run, hide, and fear males and whites too.

    How easily might rules of such toward 'profiling' those folks fly amongst that populace if those of us amongst the others were to insist on as much for the same reasons as those cited by them against us.

    I strongly agree with your summation.
    Sentences should be applied across the board to everyone, regardless of ethnicity.

    - Janq

    "What's good for the goose is good for the gander." - Old timey saying
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  7. #37
    VIP Member Array stormbringerr's Avatar
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    "This man had no business killing these boys," Brown said. "They were shot in the back. They had fled."


    why of course he didn't,how dare someone kill two boys that are terrorizing their family at 4a.m.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
    ― Thomas Paine

  8. #38
    VIP Member Array stormbringerr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by digitalexplr View Post
    Why try to bring race into this? It's 4:00 a.m., someone breaks into your home, assaults family members causing critical injuries. You have declared war on my family and I don't care what your ancestry is. I am shooting till the attack stops or I run out of bullets!

    No self respecting human being of any color is going to be breaking in to homes at 4:00 in the morning. Give it a rest reverand and mom. You both failed miserably.
    +1000 sir
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
    ― Thomas Paine

  9. #39
    Member Array riverkeeper's Avatar
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    Many states (but not all) allow a WITNESS to an especially brutal crime that corresponds to great bodily harm ... rape, murder, especially violent assault, kidnapping etc (check your sate law) ... allows that witness to use deadly force on the fleeing felon(s).

    IMHO the assault with the bat meets this test and the shoot was therefore justified on that basis alone .. but I ain't no lawyer.
    Old testament....Shooting to Live 1942
    http://www.gutterfighting.org/files/...ng_to_live.pdf
    Newer testament... Kill or Get Killed 1976/1987
    http://www.gutterfighting.org/files/...Get_Killed.pdf

  10. #40
    Member Array bianchi59's Avatar
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    Regardless of race, what would the preacher, the mother or any other citizen do under similar duress. We had a case here where someone broke into a remote mountain home with similar intent. The wife and husband fought off the armed intruder with a bat and a knife. Intruder died of his wounds, short investigation, case closed as self defense. This is less about race and more about respect for personal boundries, clearly defined criminal intent as well as bad behavior and poor impulse contol combined with lack of judgement.

  11. #41
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    Guess since it was mainly a white neighborhood, and it was blacks that broke in, the homeowner should have restrained and let them beat the family to death. He should have defended himself only if the perps were white.
    I get so tired of the racism card being played everytime justice is done. Race had nothing to do with this. I had a friend tell me that he wouldn't shoot a "teenage kid" if he broke in his house. So I guess we should all ask for ID and make sure we know what color they are before defending our families. The guy needs to brush up on his shooting. He shouldn't have missed that third one.

  12. #42
    Senior Member Array jofrdo's Avatar
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    If you go back to the original article, nobody is accusing the homeowner of racism in shooting the home invaders. They are directing charges of racism against the prosecutor for charging the sole surviving BG with the murder of his two partners. His mother is saying the homeowner should not get off free, but she is not accusing him with being racist.

  13. #43
    Distinguished Member Array kazzaerexys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jofrdo View Post
    If you go back to the original article, nobody is accusing the homeowner of racism in shooting the home invaders. They are directing charges of racism against the prosecutor for charging the sole surviving BG with the murder [...]
    If there were any validity to the racism claim (and I am certainly not agreeing that there is), it is probably because the 'seldom used' law is being invoked by the prosecutor to charge the last BG with first degree murder, rather the more customary second-degree felony murder.

    If all they are complaining about, though, is that a surviving felon was charged at all in the death of his fellow hoodlums, then they can go take a flying leap as far as I am concerned.

  14. #44
    Member Array Manan's Avatar
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    I don't know what to say. This is exactly what is wrong with the liberal agenda in America. Nobody except the victims are responsible for their own actions.

    In fact, the victims are responsible for the criminals actions.

    Where are the mothers words of sympathy in reference to the brain damaged victim of her son.
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