Omaha Mall Shooting: MERGED X4 - Page 7

Omaha Mall Shooting: MERGED X4

This is a discussion on Omaha Mall Shooting: MERGED X4 within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by OPFOR Wair cun ah get me sum o dat dere sebbin point six six ammernishun fer muh SKAKS- furty-sebbin assaultin' rahfle? Ok, ...

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  1. #91
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    Wair cun ah get me sum o dat dere sebbin point six six ammernishun fer muh SKAKS- furty-sebbin assaultin' rahfle?

    Ok, how long did it take you to get that typed out phonetically. Too, too funny.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  2. #92
    Member Array Dan M.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiboxer View Post
    Sorry if this has already been covered as I have been scanning the threads, but does anyone recall the Salt Lake City mall shooter from last year? He was neutralized by an off-duty cop with a Glock 27, if I recall correctly...
    He had a Kimber, evidently one of the rare automatic ones. ;)

    http://www.sltrib.com//ci_5248200?IA...www.sltrib.com

    Kenneth Hammond, an off-duty Ogden police officer, and his wife, Sarita, had just finished dining when they heard shots in a corridor in the mall. Kenneth sent Sarita, a police dispatcher, to take cover and call 911. He then went in search of the gunman, Miller said.

    Hammond was armed with a .45-caliber Kimber automatic handgun that holds eight rounds. He carried no extra ammunition. The shooter had a shotgun and plenty of ammunition.
    Last edited by Dan M.; December 6th, 2007 at 12:48 PM. Reason: Added link

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post
    I can understand that(the 6 minutes). I don't expect you LEO guys to be superman. Who knows what else was going on and in what directions their force was already being pulled. What I don't understand, and don't like is this yahoo in TX telling everyone to LITERALLY be a sitting...err uh standing duck.
    Oh believe me, I dont expect the LEOs to be superman... I am one. Although I come close to superman speed and strength, I know I am not him. (cryptonite doesnt bother me.)

    I'm just saying that its one of two things, poor management or incorrect reporting. I cant imagine everyone being 6 minutes out from a large shopping mall during the holiday season where I work.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  4. #94
    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    Wair cun ah get me sum o dat dere sebbin point six six ammernishun fer muh SKAKS- furty-sebbin assaultin' rahfle?
    I think I get it now, the media had to find a way to get AK-47 and SKS in the same sentence and that is the best they could come up with.

  5. #95
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    With regard to what sort of trouble you get in if you carry in a posted mall and have to use it, here are some relevant statutes:

    Section 69-2441

    Permitholder; locations; restrictions; posting of prohibition; consumption of alcohol; prohibited.
    ...
    (2) If a person, persons, entity, or entities in control of the property or an employer in control of the property prohibits a permitholder from carrying a concealed handgun into or onto the place or premises and such place or premises are open to the public, a permitholder does not violate this section unless the person, persons, entity, or entities in control of the property or employer in control of the property has posted conspicuous notice that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited in or on the place or premises or has made a request, directly or through an authorized representative or management personnel, that the permitholder remove the concealed handgun from the place or premises. A permitholder carrying a concealed handgun in a vehicle into or onto any place or premises does not violate this section so long as the handgun is not removed from the vehicle while the vehicle is in or on the place or premises. An employer may prohibit employees or other persons who are permitholders from carrying concealed handguns in vehicles owned by the employer.
    And Section 69-2443
    Violations; penalties; revocation of permit.

    (1) A permitholder who violates subsection (1) or (2) of section 69-2440 or section 69-2441 or 69-2442 is guilty of a Class III misdemeanor for the first violation and a Class I misdemeanor for any second or subsequent violation.
    ...
    (3) A permitholder convicted of a violation described in subsection (1) or (2) of this section may also have his or her permit revoked.
    In my cursory and IANAL reading of this, it appears that carrying and walking past a conspicuously posted sign in a mall is considered a violation with a 1st time offense charge of a Class III misdemeanor and possibility of having the permit revoked.

    Can a local speak up to whether my interpretation is correct?

    I didn't dig further to see what protections, if any, there are if a permit holder justifiably uses their weapon in a prohibited area.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattLarson View Post
    This loser wanted to be famous.

    And the media are tripping over themselves in a frenzy to complete his "mission" for him.
    Yes! They're all doing it. I wonder how different things might be if the media (spit) wouldn't throw up big full color portraits of the punks, make their names household words, and devote entire news segments to profiles about them. Sheesh.

    About "gun free zones"...

    I love Kentucky. Except for places off limits by state/federal law, I pretty much ignore the signs.

    God bless Kentucky. That is all.

  7. #97
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    Idiot Mayor

    "We will not accept this evil action to occur in our community," Omaha Mayor Mike Fahey said at a news conference.

    I don't see where he has any other choice as long as there are VDZ (Victim Disarmament Zones).
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  8. #98
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    One thing that really disturbs me about this entire affair, and granted we don’t know everything by a long shot, is how incompetent for lack of a better word the woman who was trying help him was. Now I understand that most people know nothing about firearms except what they see on TV and at the movies and probably know even less about gun laws. So I in no way expect her to be knowledgeable about these things like the folks on this forum. But what she did know was that this kid had mental health problems, drug problems and as a result problems with the law. WHY would you not ask a couple simple questions when he shows up with the rifle? Questions like, “where did you get that gun and what do plan to do with it”? Lastly even if you thought it couldn’t be fired maybe it could be fixed so it could shoot, so why wouldn’t you take it out of the hands of a minor and put it under your supervision in your home? This is just flagrant stupidity IMHO.

    By the way I am in no way trying to take the blame off of this kid; he is solely responsible for his actions.
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  9. #99
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    Hey thanks, I was curious about that. Just a good example of a good guy with a gun stopping some wacko in a public place.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dan M. View Post
    He had a Kimber, evidently one of the rare automatic ones. ;)

    http://www.sltrib.com//ci_5248200?IA...www.sltrib.com
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  10. #100
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    It actually made Fox News!!!!!!!!! That this was a Gun Free ZONE!!!!!!!!
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,315563,00.html
    ================================================== ================

    The horrible tragedy at the Westroads Mall in Omaha, Neb. received a lot of attention Wednesday and Thursday. It should have. Eight people were killed, and five were wounded.

    A Google news search using the phrase "Omaha Mall Shooting" finds an incredible 2,794 news stories worldwide for the last day. From India and Taiwan to Britain and Austria, there are probably few people in the world who haven’t heard about this tragedy.

    But despite the massive news coverage, none of the media coverage, at least by 10 a.m. Thursday, mentioned this central fact: Yet another attack occurred in a gun-free zone.

    Surely, with all the reporters who appear at these crime scenes and seemingly interview virtually everyone there, why didn’t one simply mention the signs that ban guns from the premises?

    Nebraska allows people to carry permitted concealed handguns, but it allows property owners, such as the Westroads Mall, to post signs banning permit holders from legally carrying guns on their property.

    The same was true for the attack at the Trolley Square Mall in Utah in February (a copy of the sign at the mall can be seen here). But again the media coverage ignored this fact. Possibly the ban there was even more noteworthy because the off-duty police officer who stopped the attack fortunately violated the ban by taking his gun in with him when he went shopping.

    Yet even then, the officer "was at the opposite end and on a different floor of the convoluted Trolley Square complex when the shooting began. By the time he became aware of the shooting and managed to track down and confront Talovic [the killer], three minutes had elapsed."

    There are plenty of cases every year where permit holders stop what would have been multiple victim shootings every year, but they rarely receive any news coverage. Take a case this year in Memphis, where WBIR-TV reported a gunman started "firing a pistol beside a busy city street" and was stopped by two permit holders before anyone was harmed.

    When will part of the media coverage on these multiple-victim public shootings be whether guns were banned where the attack occurred? While the media has begun to cover whether teachers can have guns at school or the almost 8,000 college students across the country who protested gun-free zones on their campuses, the media haven’t started checking what are the rules where these attacks occur.

    Surely, the news stories carry detailed information on the weapon used (in this case, a rifle) and the number of ammunition clips (apparently, two). But if these aspects of the story are deemed important for understanding what happened, why isn’t it also important that the attack occurred where guns were banned? Isn’t it important to know why all the victims were disarmed?

    Few know that Dylan Klebold, one of the two Columbine killers, closely was following Colorado legislation that would have allowed citizens to carry a concealed handgun. Klebold strongly opposed the legislation and openly talked about it.

    No wonder, as the bill being debated would have allowed permitted guns to be carried on school property. It is quite a coincidence that he attacked the Columbine High School the very day the legislature was scheduled to vote on the bill.

    Despite the lack of news coverage, people are beginning to notice what research has shown for years: Multiple-victim public shootings keep occurring in places where guns already are banned. Forty states have broad right-to-carry laws, but even within these states it is the "gun-free zones," not other public places, where the attacks happen.

    People know the list: Virginia Tech saw 32 murdered earlier this year; the Columbine High School shooting left 13 murdered in 1999; Luby's Cafeteria in Killeen, Texas, had 23 who were fatally shot by a deranged man in 1991; and a McDonald's in Southern California had 21 people shot dead by an unemployed security guard in 1984.

    All these attacks — indeed, all attacks involving more than a small number of people being killed — happened in gun-free zones.

    In recent years, similar attacks have occurred across the world, including in Australia, France, Germany and Britain. Do all these countries lack enough gun-control laws? Hardly. The reverse is more accurate.

    The law-abiding, not criminals, are obeying the rules. Disarming the victims simply means that the killers have less to fear. As Wednesday's attack demonstrated yet again, police are important, but they almost always arrive at the crime scene after the crime has occurred.

    The longer it takes for someone to arrive on the scene with a gun, the more people who will be harmed by such an attack.

    Most people understand that guns deter criminals. If a killer were stalking your family, would you feel safer putting a sign out front announcing, "This Home Is a Gun-Free Zone"? But that is what the Westroads Mall did.
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    --- Some of the friendliest people I have ever talked to are gun owners and shooters and according to the gun activists we are the mass murders and felons of the nation???

  11. #101
    Senior Member Array rabywk's Avatar
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    Yes it is an Opinion article, but was allowed on the site. Amazing!
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    --- Some of the friendliest people I have ever talked to are gun owners and shooters and according to the gun activists we are the mass murders and felons of the nation???

  12. #102
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    8 killed, more wounded, in the 6 minutes it took police to get to the mall.

    I note with sorrow that it has happened again...
    Herds of helpless victims, frantic, not knowing what to do, running scared like sheep, taken down by a psychotic predator at his whim. This time it was at a shopping mall in Omaha, Nebraska.

    The tally of death keeps rising as NO ONE SEEMS TO GET IT. PEOPLE ARE NOT SAFER WHEN THEY ARE DISARMED, THEY ARE SAFER WHEN THEY ARE ARMED.

    Police arrived after SIX MINUTES, and already the carnage-making was over and 8 lay dead, plus the coward who had slaughtered the innocent (by his own hand). Every available police officer, we are told, was sent to the scene, but in time to save NO ONE.

    Now, during the next week, will the pundits be talking about how it is time to vociferously advocate that would-be victims arm themselves, because every place we thought was "safe" turns out to be a place where this very kind of thing can happen? Of course not. Ted Nugent will appear on CNN and MSNBC and talk perfect sense, and Sarah Brady will spew her idiotic nonsense. For the most part, public commentators will continue to oppose the idea of sheep being taught, and implored, to defend themselves. They will keep arguing that all we need is to make places "more secure," and get rid of guns from society, and tighten purchase restrictions on them. Watch for Omaha to run a "gun buy-back" in the next year.

    In most of the online news stories that I have read, the police chief is quoted as saying that they sent every available officer to that mall. In only one of the stories I've seen so far, they added a mention that the chief noted that although the officers arrived within 6 minutes, by the time they got there it was all over. Gee, big surprise. Hasn't that been the case in just about ALL of the mass shootings in recent memory? Did the police swoop into Virginia Tech and stop the killer in mid-massacre?

    The only one in which a killer was impeded before he took his own life was the one in Utah where the off-duty cop fired back at a killer in a restaurant. And still, a large portion of our society is learning nothing about what works and what doesn't work.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by ree View Post
    With regard to what sort of trouble you get in if you carry in a posted mall and have to use it, here are some relevant statutes:

    Section 69-2441



    And Section 69-2443

    In my cursory and IANAL reading of this, it appears that carrying and walking past a conspicuously posted sign in a mall is considered a violation with a 1st time offense charge of a Class III misdemeanor and possibility of having the permit revoked.

    Can a local speak up to whether my interpretation is correct?

    I didn't dig further to see what protections, if any, there are if a permit holder justifiably uses their weapon in a prohibited area.

    You are correct. Our CCW law didn't pass until this past year. It was like pulling teeth and a lot of concessions had to be made to keep the other side of the party line happy. These harsh penalties and allowing cities to decide if they'll allow CCW were a couple of those concessions. However, as I stated a couple of pages back, the state has said that self defense trumps everything. So, in a situation like what we had here in town yesterday, if a permit holder had shot and killed the kid the idea is that he would not face any penalties.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by walvord View Post
    "We will not accept this evil action to occur in our community," Omaha Mayor Mike Fahey said at a news conference.

    I don't see where he has any other choice as long as there are VDZ (Victim Disarmament Zones).
    Isn't this the root of the problem?

    Accept it or not, its still going to happen. Hopefully this mayor will get his head out of his but I doubt it.
    "You can't shake the devils hand and say you were only kidding"

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by doctor_ocks View Post
    3. Westroads Mall DOES NOT allow concealed weapons on their property. There are signs at the entrance to the parking lot and on the front door. Obviously, I'll be ignoring those from now on...I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but God knows how many people could have been saved had there been an armed citizen in the store.
    Everyone who thinks they will revisit that policy in view of this abject failure of it to keep anyone safe from a psychopath, raise your hand...



    Folks, I can't explain it, but people are just not capable of learning from experience when what they're supposed to have learned goes against what's been socially engineered into them. And of course, those who want power over the people by keeping them unarmed, they're never going to grant that being unarmed is a liability to the average person.

    6. This was a huge wake up call for me. It's easy to say "Things like that don't happen here"....until they do. Again, I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but stay armed. You just never know.
    Funny, every mass shooting that has happened recently has happened in places where, after the fact, everyone was standing around baffled, saying, "I thought this was the kind of place where that 'couldn't' happen"!

    It's hard to understand how supposedly normal, thinking people can delude themselves into thinking that because a certain type of event usually doesn't happen in a particular location, that it can't or won't happen there. There was no magic spell on this upscale mall that could prevent someone with a rifle from entering and murdering. Until there is such a development, everywhere is where "it could happen."

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