Omaha Mall Shooting: MERGED X4 - Page 8

Omaha Mall Shooting: MERGED X4

This is a discussion on Omaha Mall Shooting: MERGED X4 within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by doctor_ocks You are correct. Our CCW law didn't pass until this past year. It was like pulling teeth and a lot of ...

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Thread: Omaha Mall Shooting: MERGED X4

  1. #106
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doctor_ocks View Post
    You are correct. Our CCW law didn't pass until this past year. It was like pulling teeth and a lot of concessions had to be made to keep the other side of the party line happy. These harsh penalties and allowing cities to decide if they'll allow CCW were a couple of those concessions. However, as I stated a couple of pages back, the state has said that self defense trumps everything. So, in a situation like what we had here in town yesterday, if a permit holder had shot and killed the kid the idea is that he would not face any penalties.
    Let's say that Mr. Permit had done just as you said, and he had the affirmative defense and it worked.

    Roll time back to the day before the incident. Mr. Permit gets stopped, say, for erroneous suspicion of shoplifting at the mall, and the police are called. Upon being frisked, Mr. Permit is determined to be carrying a handgun, which in that city is forbidden (due to the "concessions"). "Self defense" is not going to fly, as a legal defense, right? But if, at that scene, they could know the future and that Mr. Permit was indeed going to use that gun to stop the carnage, it'd be OK, right?



    It's amazing that self defense is a justification for breaking that law when looking back, but it cannot be used when looking forward.


  2. #107
    Senior Member Array Gun Bunny's Avatar
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    Does anybody know how many lives have been saved by "Gun-Free-Zones"














    A big fat ZERO!!!
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  3. #108
    Member Array chiboxer's Avatar
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    You bring up some interesting points regarding the affirmative right of self defense by the individual. In WI a pizza delivery driver just won in the Supreme Court using the affirmative self defense doctrine. His crime, using a concealed weapon to defend himself from two robbers. He had also been robbed four times previously...
    Si vis pacem, parabellum

  4. #109
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    But Gun Bunny if it weren't for the gun free zones this sort of thing would happen every day! Just ask the Brady bunch, they will tell you!
    Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis

  5. #110
    Senior Member Array walvord's Avatar
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    Quote - "There are 1,200 enclosed malls in the United States and about 50,000 shopping centers. Although some include police substations, most are patrolled by unarmed private mall and store security guards.

    Should these private security guards be armed? "Absolutely not," said Don Greene, a former FBI agent who has written a book on mall security. Greene said if a security officer were to pull a gun on an armed individual in a mall, it could result in "the gunfight at the 'OK corral,' and then we might have 23 people killed instead of eight." - Unquote.

    Sounds like the white flag is being raised to me. Guess they're not open to trying something new that might work......ugh.
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  6. #111
    Member Array doctor_ocks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadeAngel View Post
    Isn't this the root of the problem?

    Accept it or not, its still going to happen. Hopefully this mayor will get his head out of his but I doubt it.
    Trust me. He won't.

  7. #112
    Member Array doctor_ocks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peacefuljeffrey View Post
    Funny, every mass shooting that has happened recently has happened in places where, after the fact, everyone was standing around baffled, saying, "I thought this was the kind of place where that 'couldn't' happen"!

    It's hard to understand how supposedly normal, thinking people can delude themselves into thinking that because a certain type of event usually doesn't happen in a particular location, that it can't or won't happen there. There was no magic spell on this upscale mall that could prevent someone with a rifle from entering and murdering. Until there is such a development, everywhere is where "it could happen."
    I'll assume that you're not trying to insult me and try to clarify my position a little better. I think you have to image that shock would be a natural reaction for anyone in our position. When this happens in other towns I have the luxury of saying "Figures...the world is going to hell in a hand basket." and if I think rationally about it, I'm able to say the same thing about what happened here yesterday. However, it is SHOCKING to see a place that I frequent on the news with the headline "Mass Murder in Omaha Mall."

    I'd appreciate you extending me the courtesy of not assuming that I'm one of the morons you've seen on the national news "OH MY GOD HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN BLAH BLAH BLAH!" I'm sorry if I conveyed that in my previous post. I'd hope that simply by being a member here you could assume the best about me in that regard.

  8. #113
    Member Array doctor_ocks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peacefuljeffrey View Post
    Let's say that Mr. Permit had done just as you said, and he had the affirmative defense and it worked.

    Roll time back to the day before the incident. Mr. Permit gets stopped, say, for erroneous suspicion of shoplifting at the mall, and the police are called. Upon being frisked, Mr. Permit is determined to be carrying a handgun, which in that city is forbidden (due to the "concessions"). "Self defense" is not going to fly, as a legal defense, right? But if, at that scene, they could know the future and that Mr. Permit was indeed going to use that gun to stop the carnage, it'd be OK, right?



    It's amazing that self defense is a justification for breaking that law when looking back, but it cannot be used when looking forward.

    That's exactly the case. You're more at risk of someone seeing you carry in a GFZ than you are actually justifiably using your gun in a GFZ. Neat huh? Right now, most of the state is just greatful that we can even carry after being denied the right for so long. We've still got a long road to go though.

  9. #114
    Member Array Malazan's Avatar
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    I know this is gonna sound shitty, but these kind of things are why I carry all the time except where Federal Law prohibits. I pretty much say screw the local carry laws. I only won't carry in Fed. bldgs. and schools. Anywhere else is fair game. To hell with being a victim.

    I know I run a risk, but I don't ever want to be caught without my gun, when I really need it.
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  10. #115
    Senior Member Array ridurall's Avatar
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    I hope some CCW holder that was prevented from carrying at the mall gets to sue the pants off them. It would be a wake up call to all those places that think they are safer with those stupid signs. As far as I feel if they want to post those signs then they have decided to be responsible for the security for everyone in there facility. I hate lawsuits but I want this one to happen.
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  11. #116
    Senior Member Array Gun Bunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    But Gun Bunny if it weren't for the gun free zones this sort of thing would happen every day! Just ask the Brady bunch, they will tell you!
    I know, what was I thinking?!!!
    I'll make myself read their website for a week to earn how the "real" world is!!!
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  12. #117
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    What a quote

    Quote Originally Posted by walvord View Post
    "We will not accept this evil action to occur in our community," Omaha Mayor Mike Fahey said at a news conference.
    Won't accept it, but damned if we won't foster it...
    Anybody who wants to run against this fellow has a solid platform..

  13. #118
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    FWIW Fox news had security consultants on during the live coverage, who were calling for security to be better paid and ARMED to thwart armed attacks, mostly due to terrorist threats, but also because, "malls are always going to be targets."

    I'm thinking maybe I should go into business selling decorative bulletproof barriers for mall shooting cover.
    Last edited by paramedic70002; December 6th, 2007 at 08:41 PM. Reason: add info
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  14. #119
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rabywk View Post
    It actually made Fox News!!!!!!!!! That this was a Gun Free ZONE!!!!!!!!
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,315563,00.html
    John Lott wrote that. Failing to publish a piece like that would be like Milton Friedman's railing of the economic status quo failing to make the New York Times. Still, kudos to Fox News for opening the mind just a little.
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  15. #120
    Distinguished Member Array C9H13NO3's Avatar
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    Paul Helmke, the Brady Campaign pres said this:

    “Our sympathies and prayers go to the families of the eight who died and the five who were wounded in yesterday’s mall shooting in Omaha.

    “Having a military-style assault rifle and high-capacity ammunition clips enabled a troubled young man to kill and injure a large number of people quickly and efficiently. Allowing the easy acquisition and possession of military-style weapons like this is foolhardy and the results are tragic.

    “We need to find out how and where the killer got this gun and this ammunition. We need to stop selling military-style assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition clips to civilians. The killer knew what he was going to do, and he knew what tools he needed. Our weak gun laws make these killing machines readily available. We can take steps to prevent tragedies like this in the future.”


    The "high cap" mags of over 10 rounds made this possible? 8+5+self = 13. No one else there had a weapon. What does it matter if it's a "high cap" or if he reloads...nobody else was armed in the gun free zone...so nobody can stop him from reloading. Stupid Brady people lie so much they believe themselves.

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