Omaha Mall Shooting: MERGED X4 - Page 9

Omaha Mall Shooting: MERGED X4

This is a discussion on Omaha Mall Shooting: MERGED X4 within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by Supertac45 It keeps happening since dirt bags that go to jail don't stay there. Maybe I'm ahead of myself, but I doubt ...

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Thread: Omaha Mall Shooting: MERGED X4

  1. #121
    VIP Member Array stormbringerr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supertac45 View Post
    It keeps happening since dirt bags that go to jail don't stay there. Maybe I'm ahead of myself, but I doubt that the shooter has legal possession of the weapon.
    you are correct.he stoled it from his stepfather.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
    ― Thomas Paine


  2. #122
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    Reading in the Omaha World Herald today, when the first 911 call came in, it took 911 call center 2 minutes to dispatch police, then 4 minutes for police to arrive for a total of 6 minutes, but BUT it was almost 30 minutes from the first call to when the police got to the shooter, who at this point was dead. Could not imagine waiting, hiding, praying and crying for the police to finally tell you that you can come out now for almost 1/2 hour.

    If he would not have killed himself, he could have easily killed more people with a single-shot 12 ga. in the time it took the police to get to him.


    Z
    An ounce of lead is worth 200lbs of cop.

  3. #123
    Senior Member Array Sergeant Mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SleepingZ View Post
    BUT it was almost 30 minutes from the first call to when the police got to the shooter, who at this point was dead.
    You seem surprised.

    I'd like to point out a few things:

    1. A mall is a big place.

    2. As the shooter was DEAD by that time, he was no longer SHOOTING. Hence, no sounds of gunshots to guide responding officers to him.

    3. While all the facts are not yet known, I'm getting the impression that the shooter did his thing and then offed himself within a VERY short time frame, and that even if there had been an entire SWAT team loitering about at the interior mall entrance to the store, they would not have been able to reach him in time.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sergeant Mac View Post
    You seem surprised.

    I'd like to point out a few things:

    1. A mall is a big place.

    2. As the shooter was DEAD by that time, he was no longer SHOOTING. Hence, no sounds of gunshots to guide responding officers to him.

    3. While all the facts are not yet known, I'm getting the impression that the shooter did his thing and then offed himself within a VERY short time frame, and that even if there had been an entire SWAT team loitering about at the interior mall entrance to the store, they would not have been able to reach him in time.

    No, I am not surprised, it's just reality

    Yes the mall is a very big place, all but impossible to control, so why would any person/business/property owner think their security and or police could possibly offer protection.

    Shooter was dead, so no sounds to direct police, did they not have 911 info to direct them?

    and 3) you are absolutely right, was over very quickly, police did not stand a chance of intervention.

    Sag Mac I completely understand the police protocol, and do not fault them at all. The only one at fault is the shooter. I would just hope maybe someones eyes, and brains would open up, and get rid of these gun free zones because it is obvious the only one we can count on is yourself.


    Z
    An ounce of lead is worth 200lbs of cop.

  5. #125
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peacefuljeffrey View Post
    Everyone who thinks they will revisit that policy in view of this abject failure of it to keep anyone safe from a psychopath, raise your hand...



    Folks, I can't explain it, but people are just not capable of learning from experience when what they're supposed to have learned goes against what's been socially engineered into them. And of course, those who want power over the people by keeping them unarmed, they're never going to grant that being unarmed is a liability to the average person.



    Funny, every mass shooting that has happened recently has happened in places where, after the fact, everyone was standing around baffled, saying, "I thought this was the kind of place where that 'couldn't' happen"!

    It's hard to understand how supposedly normal, thinking people can delude themselves into thinking that because a certain type of event usually doesn't happen in a particular location, that it can't or won't happen there. There was no magic spell on this upscale mall that could prevent someone with a rifle from entering and murdering. Until there is such a development, everywhere is where "it could happen."
    What else do you expect? The world is full of stupid people.

    There are 3 types of people in the world in that respect:
    Wise people - Make very few mistakes if any, because they learn from everyone elses mistakes.
    Smart people - Learn from their own mistakes.
    Stupid people - Those that refuse to learn from their own or other peoples mistakes. Notice I say refuse in replace of "can't". There's a reason for that. Very few people "can't" learn. We have a word for those folks and that doesn't fit in this list. They can't through no fault of their own(mentally retarded). The rest...well, they're stupid.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    FWIW Fox news had security consultants on during the live coverage, who were calling for security to be better paid and ARMED to thwart armed attacks, mostly due to terrorist threats, but also because, "malls are always going to be targets."

    I'm thinking maybe I should go into business selling decorative bulletproof barriers for mall shooting cover.
    Bulletproof shopping bags for the would be shoppers...?
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by SleepingZ View Post
    If he would not have killed himself, he could have easily killed more people with a single-shot 12 ga. in the time it took the police to get to him.
    Or, for that matter, a breech loading .410. Can't you hear the Brady Bunch in such a case? “Having a .410 and a large quantity of bird shot enabled a troubled young man to kill and injure a large number of people quickly and efficiently. Allowing the easy acquisition and possession of squirrel-killing weapons like this is foolhardy and the results are tragic."
    I went to buy some camouflage pants, but I couldn't find any.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by SleepingZ View Post
    Reading in the Omaha World Herald today, when the first 911 call came in, it took 911 call center 2 minutes to dispatch police, then 4 minutes for police to arrive for a total of 6 minutes, but BUT it was almost 30 minutes from the first call to when the police got to the shooter, who at this point was dead. Could not imagine waiting, hiding, praying and crying for the police to finally tell you that you can come out now for almost 1/2 hour.

    If he would not have killed himself, he could have easily killed more people with a single-shot 12 ga. in the time it took the police to get to him.


    Z
    Two minutes from call to dispatch is not surprising, realize that it could be 61 seconds, it's still 2 minutes by the minute clock. Dispatchers have to type in all sorts of info to process a call. Larger centers (like I would assume they have there) should be able to loop in a supervisor and/or dispatcher for immediate dispatch while the call taker is still on the phone.

    30 minutes to find the shooter, even given variables, seems like a long time, unless you include time needed to verify there were no accomplices.

    I hope the PD didn't flub their actice shooter protocols...
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  9. #129
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    Active Shooter protocols, at least what my unit teaches the rest of the department. Form into four man diamond formations and seek out the shooter. If there are no gunshots, or reliable intel as to where the bad guy would be, then you must begin to systematically clear every store, nook, and cranny where he could be. How long would that take in a three story building, a long friggin time. Can't just run around willy nilly hoping to find this guy. If we get killed looking for him, then we're not doing anyone any good at all.
    Si vis pacem, parabellum

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sergeant Mac View Post
    1. A mall is a big place.
    Good reminder.

    The mall in question has 1.2M square feet, I believe. That's approaching a quarter-mile square. That's a rabbit warren x 10. With no sounds directing the cavalry. With likely conflicting intel from 911 calls. With a shooter who likely moved a bit.

    Anyone who has lost someone in a mall, airport or other large facility can attest to the impossibility of quickly finding what you're seeking, in such places. Unless cameras showed the area and pinpointed where to go, it's hard to forget how large 1.2M square feet really is.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    FWIW Fox news had security consultants on during the live coverage, who were calling for security to be better paid and ARMED to thwart armed attacks, mostly due to terrorist threats, but also because, "malls are always going to be targets."

    I'm thinking maybe I should go into business selling decorative bulletproof barriers for mall shooting cover.
    I'm a state licensed investigator and the firm I work for also does executive protection/private security. The phones have been ringing off the hook. Two stores in the Westroads called yesterday because they want to put guards in their stores starting tomorrow (when the mall reopens) until after the holiday rush. However, they want UNARMED guards. The owner of the company was dumbfounded.

  12. #132
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    The Omaha Police just released a couple of images taken from the security cameras.


  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by doctor_ocks View Post
    I'm a state licensed investigator and the firm I work for also does executive protection/private security. The phones have been ringing off the hook. Two stores in the Westroads called yesterday because they want to put guards in their stores starting tomorrow (when the mall reopens) until after the holiday rush. However, they want UNARMED guards. The owner of the company was dumbfounded.
    Reminds me of our court security in our county. Unarmed albeit well dressed employees who are also prohibited by their own policy of laying hands on people..

    Doesn't seem to be a real good answer in stopping these murder suicide rampages..police can't be everywhere to get there on time..the avg joe w/one 9mm semi who may happen to be in the right place at the right time vs a suicidal murderer like this armed w/an ak-47 has odds vs him also..more camera and unarmed guards will do little...

  14. #134
    Senior Member Array Pitmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doctor_ocks View Post
    I'm a state licensed investigator and the firm I work for also does executive protection/private security. The phones have been ringing off the hook. Two stores in the Westroads called yesterday because they want to put guards in their stores starting tomorrow (when the mall reopens) until after the holiday rush. However, they want UNARMED guards. The owner of the company was dumbfounded.
    What's even more amazing is they don't see the stupidity of their request. But if someone takes the contract and another shooting happens they will probably sue because they weren't protected well enough.

    I guarantee I wouldn't want a mall security job without being armed. I wouldn't want one even being armed was an option.
    Pitmaster

    HELGA: Where are you going?
    HAGAR: To sign a peace treaty with the King of England.
    HELGA: Then why take all those weapons?
    HAGAR: First we gotta negotiate...

  15. #135
    Senior Member Array mech1369dlw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doctor_ocks View Post
    I'm a state licensed investigator and the firm I work for also does executive protection/private security. The phones have been ringing off the hook. Two stores in the Westroads called yesterday because they want to put guards in their stores starting tomorrow (when the mall reopens) until after the holiday rush. However, they want UNARMED guards. The owner of the company was dumbfounded.
    Yeah, right. That is about as usefull as a football bat. Stupids!!!!!!!
    A person is justified in the use of deadly force, if such person reasonably believes deadly force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to such person or a third person.

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