New Pasadena, Tx shooting Info. - Page 2

New Pasadena, Tx shooting Info.

This is a discussion on New Pasadena, Tx shooting Info. within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by libertarian5 Regardless, it was a big mistake to shoot them in the back as they ran. Now Horn will join the list ...

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Thread: New Pasadena, Tx shooting Info.

  1. #16
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by libertarian5 View Post
    Regardless, it was a big mistake to shoot them in the back as they ran. Now Horn will join the list of losers in this incident.
    Only based on our legal system. In the moral scheme of things Horn did the right thing and is a hero.

    I would not have acted as Horn did, but I have no sympathy for the perpetrators or their families.


  2. #17
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by libertarian5 View Post
    Regardless, it was a big mistake to shoot them in the back as they ran. Now Horn will join the list of losers in this incident.
    According to the detective who witnessed it one of them was running towards him than veered off. In any case both where in the commission of a felony and or fleeing a felony. They got what they asked for he warned them.
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  3. #18
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    The only thing I know is that I would need to peal a lot of onions to shed any tears for the two that were shot.


    Z
    An ounce of lead is worth 200lbs of cop.

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
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    well, lets see, from what I read, they were 7-10 feet from him, on his property when he engaged them..... 7-10 feet they could have been on him before he could defend himself, thats a proven fact. i say the guy did what he had to do, regardless.
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

  5. #20
    Distinguished Member Array bandit383's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supertac45 View Post
    Your brain and reactions to his reaction about booking isn't fast enough to abort the shot. If you don't believe it, try it with a friend and a paintball or soft gell gun. Have him face you and decide wheather or not to charge or run. You decide on the shot and when your going to take it. It's not a simple equation that has a right or wrong answer.
    Both of them?? I can see one (as in your scenario), but two...I think your brain can react...

    With the LEO pulling up...I think they were fleeing. We can arm chair all day long..was it self-defense or was it vigilanti???

    Texas threw two border patrol agents in jail for shooting an illegal and drug smuggler in the butt (and the cover-up)...so this shall be interesting how they treat this one.

    Rick

  6. #21
    Distinguished Member Array P7fanatic's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by wmhawth View Post
    Not Cuba. I believe they were Colombianos.
    You're right, I stand corrected. Thought it felt funny as I was typing it because I had known that.
    "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." -Thomas Jefferson

    "Liberalism is a Mental Disorder." -Michael Savage

    GOOD Gun Control is being able to hit your target! -Myself

  7. #22
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    I think it will be interesting to see how this plays out in the courts. There has been a lot of speculation on this, but does this new information change anyones opinions? We have a guy that shot two men in the back that were armed with nothing more than a center punch. In most situations I would think that would be rather suspect. Yes there are explanations, but listening to the timing of the shots on the tape would make me think. Then again, it was witnessed by a police officer and Horn was not taken into custody.
    I must say, living here in Texas is a heck of a lot more interesting to me than Maryland was!
    Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis

  8. #23
    Member Array dang.45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    I don't get how it relevant could be pasty white and the cause and effect would be the same...
    I think that's pretty much what I said, wasn't it?
    "It is only as retaliation that force may be used and only against the man who starts its use. No, I do not share his evil or sink to his concept of morality: I merely grant him his choice, destruction, the only destruction he had a right to choose: his own." - John Galt, from Atlas Shrugged

  9. #24
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dang.45 View Post
    I think that's pretty much what I said, wasn't it?
    Yes mam you are right I mistook
    Quote Originally Posted by dang.45 View Post
    he didn't even give them a chance to stop, let alone have them prove whether or not they were in the country illegally...
    to mean that he erred or over reacted. For me it is hard for me to see how any honorable man could just sit there while his neighbors were being robbed. Once outside they really gave him no choice when they decided to come at him instead of laying down and stopping as ordered.
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

  10. #25
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    I was afraid this was going to stay in the media.

    The 911 tape alone is enough grounds for conviction for pre-meditated.

    Three shots, two kills both in the back (I figured that when I first heard the 911 tape).

    Granted he is in Texas and they will be hard put to find 12 people willing to convict him for what happened.

    Either way he is in for a long expensive trip through the judicial meat grinder. I still hope they offer a plea that gets him house arrest and probation. This guy is what, 70+ years old? Any prison sentence is a death sentence.

  11. #26
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    Most of the time, a grand jury does whatever the prosecutor recommends, since there is no defense attorney present. Often, whether or not the DA pushes for criminal charges in such a case depends upon what his political aspirations are, and what the 'pulse' of the community is on a given case.

    In places other than the large metropolitan areas, this case probably does not even go to a grand jury, because most Texans still consider that a thief who is killed in the act has merely paid a very high price for his decision to steal.

    Race has little to do with it, in my opinion.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    Yes mam you are right I mistook

    to mean that he erred or over reacted. For me it is hard for me to see how any honorable man could just sit there while his neighbors were being robbed. Once outside they really gave him no choice when they decided to come at him instead of laying down and stopping as ordered.
    While I agree with you about being neighborly, I would point out that "erred or over reacted" is not a very good legal defense.

    Here is an excerpt from the Texas Law:

    (a) Except as provided in Subsection (b), a person is
    justified in using force against another when and to the degree the
    actor [he] reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary
    to protect the actor [himself] against the other's use or attempted
    use of unlawful force. The actor's belief that the force was
    immediately necessary as described by this subsection is presumed
    to be reasonable if the actor knew or had reason to believe that the
    person against whom the force was used:
    (1) unlawfully entered, or was attempting to enter
    unlawfully, the actor's habitation, vehicle, or place of business
    or employment;
    (2) unlawfully removed, or was attempting to remove
    unlawfully, the actor from the actor's habitation, vehicle, or
    place of business or employment; or
    (3) was committing or attempting to commit aggravated
    kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault,
    robbery, or aggravated robbery.
    Mr. Horn's big problem is that the type of crimes the thieves (burglary) were commiting may not be covered by the law. If they had broken into his house instead of the neighbors he'd probably be ok. He initiated the contact, not the thieves. I'm sure that it was not the intent of the law to turn individual neighbors into security forces for the neighborhood.

    This is a good story to follow. Thanks to OldTxCop.

    The Texas law is printed here: http://www.gunmuse.com/Blog//630

  13. #28
    VIP Member Array glock27mark's Avatar
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    happy picture

    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    Here is a picture of Diego Ortiz taken from the Chronicle.


    I will see if I can find the picture of the other guy.
    likes like a good pic. to send with xmas cards.
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  14. #29
    VIP Member Array randy7601's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    I must say, living here in Texas is a heck of a lot more interesting to me than Maryland was!
    Yep!
    Randy
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  15. #30
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Libertarian5,
    I agree that this scenario does not fit the section of law you posted, but I believe his defense is going to be based on the following:
    SUBCHAPTER D. PROTECTION OF PROPERTY


    § 9.41. PROTECTION OF ONE'S OWN PROPERTY. (a) A person in
    lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is
    justified in using force against another when and to the degree the
    actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to
    prevent or terminate the other's trespass on the land or unlawful
    interference with the property.
    (b) A person unlawfully dispossessed of land or tangible,
    movable property by another is justified in using force against the
    other when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force
    is immediately necessary to reenter the land or recover the
    property if the actor uses the force immediately or in fresh pursuit
    after the dispossession and:
    (1) the actor reasonably believes the other had no
    claim of right when he dispossessed the actor; or
    (2) the other accomplished the dispossession by using
    force, threat, or fraud against the actor.

    Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.
    Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, § 1.01, eff. Sept. 1,
    1994.


    § 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is
    justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or
    tangible, movable property:
    (1) if he would be justified in using force against the
    other under Section 9.41; and
    (2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
    deadly force is immediately necessary:
    (A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of
    arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the
    nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
    (B) to prevent the other who is fleeing
    immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated
    robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the
    property; and
    (3) he reasonably believes that:
    (A) the land or property cannot be protected or
    recovered by any other means; or
    (B) the use of force other than deadly force to
    protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or
    another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

    Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.
    Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, § 1.01, eff. Sept. 1,
    1994.


    § 9.43. PROTECTION OF THIRD PERSON'S PROPERTY. A person
    is justified in using force or deadly force against another to
    protect land or tangible, movable property of a third person if,
    under the circumstances as he reasonably believes them to be, the
    actor would be justified under Section 9.41 or 9.42 in using force
    or deadly force to protect his own land or property and:
    (1) the actor reasonably believes the unlawful
    interference constitutes attempted or consummated theft of or
    criminal mischief to the tangible, movable property; or
    (2) the actor reasonably believes that:
    (A) the third person has requested his protection
    of the land or property;
    (B) he has a legal duty to protect the third
    person's land or property; or
    (C) the third person whose land or property he
    uses force or deadly force to protect is the actor's spouse, parent,
    or child, resides with the actor, or is under the actor's care.

    Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.
    Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, § 1.01, eff. Sept. 1,
    1994.
    Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis

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