This is a discussion on Denver Church Shooting, merged and re-named within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; cnn reports she was a volunteer with her private weapon: # NEW: Guard who killed gunman was volunteer from congregation # NEW: Church put in ...
cnn reports she was a volunteer with her private weapon:
# NEW: Guard who killed gunman was volunteer from congregation
# NEW: Church put in place security plan after earlier shooting
A New Life parishioner acting as a security guard shot and killed a gunman
"She probably saved over a hundred lives," Boyd said of the guard, whom he said is not a law enforcement officer and used her personal weapon.
Last edited by P7fanatic; December 10th, 2007 at 09:54 PM.
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." -Thomas Jefferson
"Liberalism is a Mental Disorder." -Michael Savage
GOOD Gun Control is being able to hit your target! -Myself
Can anyone get an e mail address where we can send support to the security guard? God Bless her for what she did and setting an example for us all!! Unfortunately the media is not developing this story of preparedness and the lives she saved.
Does your church have a plan for this type of disturbance? Many wars are fought over religion and what better way for a religious zealot to really make a statement than to go into a place of worship and start shooting.
Is that what it means when it says "militia" in the Constitution?
Is it time for "MEDIA CONTROL"?
"It does not take a majority to prevail,,,,,,but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." Samuel Adams
Another write-up - sorry if it has been posted but no time to check.
Again good mention of the timely actions of the lady
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.
"To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."
http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.
That was a good USA Today article.
Hmm Maybe I should ask our pastor if we have armed security?
Transcript from Church's site:
Transcript--Edited for readability.
December 10, 2007, 9:00 a.m. MST
Senior Pastor, New Life Church
Our biggest concern is not for the building, obviously, it's for a family who lost two of
two teenage daughters . . . two members of our church, one 18, and one 16. Our
hearts are grieving this morning for them. You can imagine as parents, losing two
children, while coming to church, showing up for a worship service, not bothering
anyone. This is a very godly family, a family that serves in our church. One of the
young girls just returned from an overseas missions trip--they are very committed
here. It's a great tragedy what happened, and I am I'm asking Colorado Springs
and the country to please pray for that family this morning because they are going
through a very difﬁcult time.
The others that were wounded yesterday are doing well. All of them should
recover--they do not have life-threatening injuries. We saw them at the hospital last
night, visited with them and prayed with them, and they will be ﬁne. But obviously
the trauma that happened here yesterday will take weeks and months for us to get
through. This is a very strong church--it has a history of surviving trauma, and it will
do well. It will be okay.
In the days ahead we will be ministering to anyone that needs it. Even right now at
Woodmen Valley Chapel, there are trauma counselors available there for anyone
who witnessed the events yesterday, and needs trauma counseling, there are
counselors available right now at Woodmen Valley Chapel here in Colorado
Springs for people to go to and receive all the help that they need.
Our ofﬁces will be closed today--we are repairing the building. We will reopen
tomorrow--our staff will be back at church tomorrow. We will meet as a church
family at some point this week to begin the process of grieving and recovering and
the church will go forward, we will be strong, we will move ahead. We will care for
those who are wounded. We will care for the family who lost two children
yesterday. We will survive with God's grace and help.
I want to thank you for being here this morning. I will take a few questions if you'd
Question: Can you tell us more about your security person who shot the
Yes. She she is highly trained, and is a volunteer member of our church and,
simply, her role is to provide security and she did her job yesterday and she is a
real hero. When the shots were ﬁred, she rushed toward the scene and
encountered the attacker in the hallway. He never got more than 50 feet inside our
building. There could have been a great loss of life yesterday, and she probably
saved over a hundred lives. He had enough ammunition on him to cause a lot of
damage, and she rushed toward the attacker and took him down in the hallway.
By the way, our hearts go out to the family of this young man, the attacker, he has a
mom and dad somewhere, he has a family, and we want them to know that at New
Life Church we are praying for them. We know that there is a grieving process for
them as well, and we certainly are praying for that family.
Question: The family that was shot, was it a random shooting?
It was absolutely random. There was no sense to it. It is a tragedy. We don't know
the shooter, he has no connection to our church. He simply showed up on our
property yesterday with a gun and the intention of hurting people, and he did. He
was not an employee here, he was not a member here, he was not known here. It
was simply a random attack. A senseless random attack.
Question: One of the victims was on a mission--any connection with the center
No, not at all. She was on a missions trip sanctioned by our church, and not by
Question: You said you took extra precautions when you heard about the
Arvada shooting. Can you describe what you did? Is this the world we live in
where churches are targets?
Sure. Certainly, high proﬁle churches like our own, unfortunately we're a target
because of our size and the national attention we've received over the last year
and a half. So yesterday morning, I was in my ofﬁce at 7:30 like I usually am, and
my head of security came in and said there had been a shooting north of us in
Denver at a YWAM ofﬁce and the he was calling in extra security. I said that I
thought that was a great idea.
The woman who was our security volunteer was purposely stationed in the center
of our rotunda yesterday because of the shooting in Denver. Because we took extra
precautions, we saved a lot of lives yesterday. We have had a plan in place here
for many years, before I ever came as senior pastor, for situations like this. And for
a group of volunteers to be able to pull off an evacuation plan the way they did
yesterday was supernatural and unbelievable.
We had a detailed evacuation plan in place given all kinds of scenarios, and had a
large group of people that knew what to do, we had places on our campus that
were designated as holding areas, and people were taken there immediately.
People were ushered off the campus or taken to safe places. We had security
details in each of those locations to keep people safe.
That's the reality of our world. I don't think any of us grew up in churches where that
was a reality, but today it is. So we prepared in advance for that, and because of
that, although we are grieving today because of the loss of two lives, hundreds of
lives were saved because of the plan we had in place. We are grateful to God for
giving us the wisdom to do that and for protecting us yesterday.
Question: Was the security ofﬁcer stationed where she normally would be
I don't know where she is normally stationed--she is often near me, but takes
assignments wherever needed. She is a volunteer--this is a person that comes to
our church and is a worshiper here. We have two services--so she sits in one
service and worships, and then serves in the second service as security many
Question: Was she an off-duty police ofﬁcer?
No, but she does have law enforcement background.
Question: Was she uniformed?
No, she was plain-clothes.
Question: How large is the security team? Are they all armed?
I don't know the exact number we have on the team--approximately ﬁfteen or
twenty. The only ones that are armed are the ones licensed to be carry weapons.
We follow the law very carefully and we follow strict guidelines, because there is
obviously a lot of legality involved. We have to have a security team that large
because of the size of our church--we have 300,000 square feet of buildings and
there are people on our campus all the time. So we have to have a provide security
for that size building.
Question: How long has the family attended New Life Church?
They have been at New Life Church for about a year and a half. I'll take one more
Question: Was the gun used her weapon or the church's weapon?
No, we don't own weapons. It was her personal weapon that she was licensed to
Thank you, that's all.
Security Guard Hailed A Hero
The gunman was killed by a member of the church's volunteer security staff before police arrived.
"He never got more than 50 feet inside our building," said Boyd. "(Our security guard) rushed toward the attacker and took him down in the hallway. She probably saved 100 lives."
He called her "a real hero" because the gunman "had enough ammunition on him to cause a lot of damage."
The security guard was a woman in plain clothes who volunteers with the church and uses her own personal weapon, Boyd said. She has a law enforcement background and is licensed to carry a weapon. She attends one of the morning services and then volunteers as a guard during another service, he said.
Boyd said she was the one who suggested the church beef up its security Sunday following the Arvada shooting, which it did. The pastor credited the security plan and the extra security for preventing further bloodshed.
Because of the shooting in Arvada, the guard was strategically placed inside the center of the church and was nearby when the gunman entered the foyer.
Boyd said the church "looked like a war zone" and that about 40 shots were fired in all. He called it a "senseless random attack."
Officers also found several smoke-generating devices on the church campus; their purpose wasn't clear.
Boyd said there are 15 to 20 security people at the church. All are volunteers but the only ones armed are those who are licensed to carry weapons.
USN 78-82/USAF 82-93 Medically Retired
Desert Shield/Desert Storm
DAV Life Member
NRA Life Member
However, I don't attend church, being areligious.
But I did attend a funeral recently, and you bet I carried. In fact, the woman to whom I was paying respects used to carry. Her son is an ardent right-to-carry advocate and Ron Paul supporter/volunteer.
Someone, please tell me why ANYONE at this point believes that God is going to protect his flock in churches. That's been disproved by now, repeatedly. It really seems to me that if you're not carrying in church, there's a gaping hole in your defense plan.
Let them try to avoid recognition that CCW saves lives, now.
This is Luby's gone right.
From the USAToday article:
I find that troubling. That's all they could do? That's all they could do.Ashley Gibbs, 19, and her boyfriend were walking across a parking lot following the afternoon service at New Life Church when they heard what they thought was someone chipping ice off a windshield. She then saw a puff of snow fly up from the ground and a man in a black trench coat carrying "a big gun."
"That's when we panicked and started praying," Gibbs said.
Sorry, praying does not bring about a stop to violence. (I know that at 19--if the boyfriend was like age--they could not legally be carrying, but all the same, I'll bet they were not the only ones who "panicked and started praying.")
We're living in a world that keeps showing us its horrible dangerous side. There's no excuse for "praying" when the only thing that works is "fighting."
wow, good for her. glad everything turned out so well.
*sigh* I know it's a pipe dream but I wish the news agencies would just stop identifying these shooters and giving them their 15 seconds of "fame". I know it's important for the victims' families to have closure and they should know, but just not in every national article or news broadcast.
Kudos to the Church for recognizing potential threats. I believe as the dust settles, we will know more about the security guard, background, and weapon. To take shots in a crowd under panic...double kudos. I suspect many more churches will take this stance if not already doing so.
Personally, I will never find praying "troubling"...I'll even bet the security guard was praying don't let me miss...but would never attack someone's faith.
Let's see what worked better - No Gun signs in Omaha or CCW armed volunteer security in Colorado? Can't be much clearer what works better.
This is a tangent, but the question was asked.
It takes a long time to realize it, but either a person believes they are the center of the universe, or they realize there is a higher authority than oneself.
If one believes they are the center, then offing people 'just becuse I feel like it' becomes an option. Those who believe in a higher authority actually do pray and ask the hard questions - what is evil and should I stop it?
I am glad the lady stopped the perp - my belief system, with it's limited knowledge says to. I do not feel superior to anyone else because I choose to carry, I won't know if I am on the correct path until I stop breathing. Maybe the Amish who abhor violence are superior to us all, I can not say, nor will I speculate because their way is different.
Denigrating prayer is to ignore history. Pick your general, Washington, Patton, Eisenhower, all believed in the power.
Choose your beliefs. People do what they can, prayer is one man's answer to evil, it does not mean because we can not see a tangable result that it is useless in the final outcome.
Last edited by GBS; December 10th, 2007 at 10:03 PM. Reason: Clarity
The lady that shot the bad guy is quoted as saying she was praying. This account came from a injured member who witnesses her taking him out. He said it was the bravest thing he ever saw. And he told her so. And her response to him was "I was praying..."
I imagine so. I know my prayer would be something like "Lord, don't let me miss!".